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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (108510)	4/13/2009 1:04:43 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541582

Michael, you aren't the hyphen between African and American. And you never personally experienced Jim Crow and all the violence and hate and demeaning snubs and condescensions as well as the petty irritations that went along with that. Reading about it or being aware that it was going on is no substitute for the actual experience of it. You grew up and experienced a very different America, and it is understandable why you would be irritated by what Wright said in those videos. But Jim Crow isn't just a distant memory--most of the people who actively participate on this board were youngsters when it was still active. It affected the North as well as the South, even if in different ways and perhaps to a different degree. And certainly Wright and many of the people in his congregation had experienced it directly, and were in a variety of ways still experiencing its aftereffects in the 80s and 90s when he was delivering those sermons. You like "quiet" and "respectful," and those certainly are good things. But they aren't always possible. You yourself wouldn't say "peace to all, love and forgiveness for everyone" if the other person was treating you like blacks were very often treated in the US. For sure it happens less--far far less--now than 40 years ago. But plenty of remnants remain. Remember James Jordan? Or the boy who was dragged to his death tied to a truck? Those were just two famous incidents. The way you react to slights against the honor of the US make me speculate that a person of your temperament might well be ranting just like Wright if you had grown up as an African-American under Jim Crow. Please understand me when I say that--I am not trying to put you down in any way when I say that. The Hebrews who were raised as slaves in Egypt couldn't enter the Promised Land--they had slave mentalities, their perspective was distorted by that experience. I agree with you when you said that Obama was aware that Wright was a political liability and ended their relationship because of it. I think Obama was probably always aware of Wright's limitations. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't still respect the man and seek to understand what he and others in that congregation had experienced. And see their humanity along with their anger.

To: greenspirit who wrote (108510)	4/13/2009 7:11:05 AM
From: Mary Cluney	Respond to of 541582

<<<I also assume the views he shares in private are more radical and crazy, >>> More radical and crazier than Bush and RW preacher's views on rapture, rendition, evolution, torture, pre-emptive war, etc ???

To: greenspirit who wrote (108510)	4/13/2009 1:34:11 PM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541582

>> Would you sit in Wright's church and listen to those sermons? I certainly wouldn't. If anyone started ranting like that fool, I would walk out of the place and go to a church around the corner. ... I also assume the views he shares in private are more radical and crazy, than the ones he's willing to share in public and on camera.<< Michael - I'll say this once more, since it doesn't seem to have gotten through, and then I'll try to ignore this subject. You have heard, I would be willing to bet, less than 15 minutes worth of excerpts from two or possibly three Wright sermons. Those few excerpts were widely distributed. If you listened to the complete sermons, well, good for you, but even then, you haven't heard more than those two or three, have you? There are available, online, dozens of sermons by Wright that are all about God's love and other standard Christian fare. I've seen many of them. If the vast majority of his sermons didn't fall into that category, you can be certain that Fox News would have shown more than just the few clips they kept repeating. One of the famous sermons related to 9/11, and was given just after the event. Well, everybody was pretty worked up at that time. I heard right wingers suggesting seriously that we should turn the sand of the Middle East into glass by nuking the whole area. You've just assumed that Wright "ranted" every Sunday, but you don't know that. - Allen