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Pastimes : Metaphysics and Spiritual Practices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tomato who wrote (22)	10/27/1997 12:54:00 PM
From: Crocodile	Respond to of 650

Alright... let the fear discussion continue... Tomato, Actually, you have managed to cut to the chase regarding my conceptualization of fear... What is it that we really fear about sharks, bears, car accidents, disease, etc...? For some, the thought of having one's head bitten off by a shark, or of being torn apart by lions or bears is frightening and grotesque. For others, the thought of being trapped in a burning car wreck is a fearsome thought... And still others fear the idea of being consumed by cancer or some other disease. But these fears really have more to do with out own imaginations and how we happen to visualize pain and death. I think that, in particular, fear of the means of our death has very little to do with the actual fear of dying...and perhaps more to do with particular intrinsic fears such as those of fire, dismemberment, disease, violence, water, animals, prolonged pain, or what have you... In my own case, I think that I fear car accidents far more than many other things... perhaps because I worked in a wrecking yard for a few years and watched as several twisted wrecks were unloaded each week... and thought to myself... well... that could have been me on any given day driving back and forth to work... Considering the fact that only about 5 - 8 fatal bear attacks take place in Canada each year... but more than that number of people die in car crashes on just about any given weekend across my province... my fears probably aren't entirely unjustified... However, I seriously doubt that my fear is of death itself... just that being crushed in a fiery wreck is a kind of morbid end to life... but that is just a personal opinion of course... Concerning death and the fear of it... I have come somewhat close to death twice... once by almost drowning...and a second time during a serious bout of pneumonia... and I can say...without any real reservations... that in both cases, I wasn't particularly afraid and in one case, almost cared very little about the outcome... I don't recall feeling anything more than a thought such as... well...I guess maybe this is the end... oh well.... Fortunately (I suppose..) I still happen to be around... and can still say that I'm not really afraid of dying... but I am still afraid of being trapped in a burning car wreck or falling out of the sky in a malfunctioning airplane... LOL!!! Rather interesting is the fact that I have very little fear of drowning even though I had such a close call... it didn't seem like such a bad way to go at the time... (-: Well, to continue, I suppose I share similar thoughts about the meaning of our lives... I like to walk in old cemeteries and study old tombstones. Occasionally, you really have to stop and think... Here around me are two or three hundred years of human lives... each of which seemed as real as my own life... but where are they now? Are they here around me? Not too likely is it? So where is everyone? Where will I be when this shell that I seem to inhabit at the moment ceases to exist... whether it be eaten by bears, burned in a fire, or cast up on a beach somewhere like Percy Shelley after his ill-fated sail on the Mediterranean? Will I be like Shelley and see death as only the beginning of the next "adventure"? Hmmmm... yes... that is a good way to look at life and death... as a series of adventures... one ends as the next begins... <Am I nuts, or what?> Nay sir,.... there term is irrelevant.... (-: Lady Croc

To: Tomato who wrote (22)	10/27/1997 8:06:00 PM
From: Yorikke	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 650

Tomato, Crocodile mentioned fear as an innate form of self preservation. I mentioned it as a form of high respect. I believe we speak of the same thing. I'd like to distinguish fear from worry and panic; though I have a hard time doing that with words. Perhaps that fear is a positive force in our lives while worry accomplishes nothing in a circular manner, and panic is what happens when we just don't react rationally. I've often read that people caught in deeply perilous moments feel fear but face the situation with a clear mind, reacting as best they can; even as they see their lives ebbing away. The hunter attacked by a bear, who has the sense to feed the bear his arm just to keep it from his head; and then going limp and playing dead as the bear knocks him about and finally loses interest. On the Metaphysical level. I don't view death as very metaphysical; at least from a personal level. Dead is dead. I'll do what I can not to get there, for as long as I can. Other's may contemplate my impending death and assign metaphysical content to it; but that won't have much effect on me. This is not to say I don't prepare for death; I just see no reason, at the moment, to place anything more than a negative on it. Ending terminal suffering is simply a choice of sooner or later death; in a very immediate sense. My Uncle passed away recently and it was sad to follow his slow meandering path through his last days. When they finally refused the respirator it was a relief for everyone; particularly him. IMO Spiritual practice must deal with the 'right now'. All the yesterdays and all the tomorrow's sum to zero. The message must be 'of the moment'. Going one step farther, I think the value of any particular thought is in how it helps you live the 'right now'. And for me, personally, this is, and has been, a very physical experience. We can read all the books around; all the pretty contemplation's about what we are and where we came from, and where we will go-- but if we can't get through the day properly it doesn't help much. Finally a disclaimer: I believe these things but am not very good at putting them into practice. My goal remains just getting through the day well, of dealing with each situation well, of keeping the despair and suffering I experience from overflowng into the lives of those around me....and finally of remembering my boorish tendency toward academic lecture and pontification; for which I apoligize. regards, mnmuench