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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (109756)4/24/2009 8:27:32 PM
From: Mary Cluney  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 541429
 
<<<I'm not the one advocating torture-->>>

Ahh yezz. Und you ver alzo fighting on der eastern front, yahvol? <ggg>



To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (109756)4/24/2009 8:32:40 PM
From: Wharf Rat  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541429
 
Not vague at all...

Agency called harsh methods 'torture,' questioned results
Apr. 24, 2009 03:27 PM
Washington Post
WASHINGTON - The military agency that helped to devise harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency. Parts of the attachment, obtained in full by the Washington Post, were quoted in a Senate report on harsh interrogation released this week.

It remains unclear whether the attachment reached high-ranking officials in the Bush administration. But the document offers the clearest evidence that has come to light so far that those who helped formulate the harsh interrogation techniques voiced early concerns about the effectiveness of applying severe physical or psychological pressure.

The document was included among July 2002 memoranda that described severe interrogation techniques used against Americans in past conflicts and the psychological effects of such treatment. JPRA ran the military program known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE), which trains pilots and others to resist hostile questioning.

The cautionary attachment was forwarded to the Pentagon's Office of the General Counsel as the administration finalized the legal underpinnings to a CIA interrogation program that would sanction the use of 10 forms of coercion, including waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The JPRA material was sent from the Pentagon to the CIA's acting General Counsel, John Rizzo, and on to the Justice Department, according to testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

An Aug. 1, 2002, memo from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel authorized the use of the 10 methods against Abu Zubaida, the nom de guerre of an al-Qaida associate captured in Pakistan in March 2002. Former intelligence officials have recently contended that Abu Zubaida provided little useful information about the organization's plans.

Senate investigators were unable to determine whether William J. Haynes II, the Pentagon's General Counsel in 2002, passed the cautionary memo to Rizzo or to other Bush administration officials reviewing the CIA's proposed program.

Haynes declined to comment, as did Rizzo and the CIA. Jay Bybee, who as an assistant Attorney General signed the Aug. 1, 2002, memo, did not respond to a request for comment.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he believed the attachment was deliberately ignored and perhaps suppressed. Excerpts from the document appeared in a report on the treatment of detainees released this month by Levin's committee. The committee report says the attachment echoes JPRA warnings issued in late 2001.

"It's part of a pattern of squelching dissent," said Levin, who said there were other instances in which internal reviews of detainee treatment were halted or undercut. "They didn't want to hear the down side."

A former administration official said the National Security Council, which was briefed repeatedly that summer on the CIA's planned interrogation program by George Tenet, then Director of Central Intelligence, and agency lawyers, did not discuss the issues raised in the attachment.

"That information was not brought to the attention of the principals," said the former administration official, who was involved in deliberations on interrogation policy who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. "That would have been relevant. The CIA did not present with pros and cons, or points or concern. They said this was safe and effective, and there was no alternative."

The Aug. 1, 2002, memo on the interrogation of Abu Zubaida draws from the JPRA's memo on psychological effects to conclude that while waterboarding constituted "a threat of imminent death" it did not cause "prolonged mental harm." Therefore, the Aug. 1, 2002, memo concluded, waterboarding "would not constitute torture within the meaning of the statute."

But the JPRA's two-page attachment, titled "Operational Issues Pertaining to the Use of Physical/Psychological Coercion in Interrogation," questioned the effectiveness of employing extreme duress to obtain intelligence.

"The requirement to obtain information from an uncooperative source as quickly as possible - in time to prevent, for example, an impending terrorist attack that could result in loss of life - has been forwarded as a compelling argument for the use of torture," the document said. "In essence, physical and/or psychological duress are viewed as an alternative to the more time-consuming conventional interrogation process. The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate information. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption."

There was no consideration within the National Security Council that the planned techniques stemmed from Chinese communist practices and had been deemed torture when employed against American personnel, the former administration official said. The U.S. military prosecuted its own soldiers for using waterboarding in the Philippines and had put Japanese officers on trial for war crimes for its use against Americans and other allied nationals during World War II.

The reasoning in the JPRA document contrasted sharply with arguments being pressed at the time by current and former military psychologists in the SERE program, including James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, who later formed a company that became a CIA contractor advising on interrogations. Both men declined to comment on their role in formulating interrogation policy.

The JPRA attachment said the key deficiency of physical or psychological duress is the reliability and accuracy of the information gained. "A subject in pain may provide an answer, any answer, or many answers in order to get the pain to stop," it said.

In conclusion, the document said, "the application of extreme physical and/or psychological duress (torture) has some serious operational deficits, most notably, the potential to result in unreliable information." The word "extreme" is underlined.
azcentral.com



To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (109756)4/25/2009 6:29:08 AM
From: wonk  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541429
 
...and that left a loophole the lawyers could exploit.

That conclusion is erroneous, because the legal documents that the lawyers (Yoo, Bybee, Haynes et al) crafted, by some magical fashion, missed all the controlling cases in US jurisprudence and case law.

See:

pegc.us

Specifically, they missed, the japanese war crimes trials, Courts Martial for use of the "water cure" during the Philippine Insurgency, and most recently, prosecution and conviction of a Texas Sheriff and deputies by the Department of Justice in 1983 for torturing prisoners using the "water cure" to elicit forced confessions. A snipet from The Court of Appeal decision affirming those convictions is summarized at the bottom of this post.

The OLC memos, now that we can finally see them, along with all the information that has already come out, with more to come, shows conclusively that the regular institutions (all the military services, the FBI, even the CIA initially) said - '...this is illegal, this is torture, don't do it....'

The Politicians demanded information, however obtained, and ordered their PET lawyers to craft seemingly persuasive legal memoranda to enforce their Political Command: and their pet lawyers complied.

Those memoranda have no more legal force than if I have my lawyer write me a memo saying its perfectly legal to rob at gunpoint the local 7-11.

If you wish another cite to US black letter case regarding lawyers facilitating criminality and War Crimes, google:

United States v. Altstoetter

----------------------

"...Lee was indicted along with two other deputies, Floyd Baker and James Glover, and the County Sheriff, James Parker, based on a number of incidents in which prisoners were subjected to a “water torture” in order to prompt confessions to various crimes. On the morning trial was to begin, Floyd Baker's counsel informed the court and his co-defendants that Baker intended to admit the government's allegations were true but would argue that he did not have the “state of mind” required for criminal liability. Lee, Glover and Parker each intended to defend on the ground that they did not participate in any torture incidents and were unaware that any such incidents were taking place. Counsel for the other defendants immediately moved for severance. The district court deferred a ruling on these motions pending some clarification of exactly what Baker's defense and testimony would be.

At trial, Baker's defense as developed by his counsel and his testimony rested on two points. The first was that he actively participated in only a single torture episode, and then only because ordered to do so by his superiors-a “Nuremberg defense.” The second was that while he believed the torture of prisoners immoral, he did not at the time think it was illegal. In the course of Baker's testimony, he identified Lee as a participant in the torture of several prisoners. Seven other witnesses also connected Lee with various torture incidents. At the close of the evidence, the district judge severed Baker, and put the case of the remaining defendants to the jury. Lee was convicted on three counts...."