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Microcap & Penny Stocks : CCEE Breaking Out -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IncredibleHult who wrote (7451)	10/29/1997 12:19:00 PM
From: Rick	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12454

>>>Rick, you can't manipulate a stock in the same way when it has 130 million shares out. I don't understand what you are suggesting? Do you honestly think this forum has that power? <<< Well Fred lets look at some different angles: 1. A lot of stock has been converted. The process usually involves "Investment Banking" services which do their work on a fee basis and they are sometimes themselves paid in stock. I have posted information here that discusses that aspect. We see that there are lots of enforcement actions where market makers manipulate prices and volumn. I don't know what is happening other than what I read here and in the 10-k/q's. They seem to show a pattern don't they? Have you looked at the dates when conversions can be made? Have you considered the holding periods and the subsequent rally's? And most important of all does not INGRID in almost every post tell you how the stock is in fact being manipulated but is being manipulated in a way that will fool the SEC? It's not nice to fool mother SEC it might cost YOU Money!!! 2. What ever the actuall power of this thread actually is or is not, really does not matter. What matters is the intent to affect the market price. I don't think it would have that much power either but perhaps someone does. There are certainly those who want to shut up anyone who has the power to articulate reasonable discussions of anything negative about this stock. WHY? In fact Fred a certain group which has been shown to lie in ambush, has taken it upon themselves to join with the only poster on this thread who has publically made a specticle of himself in his attempt with INGRID to lie to everyone and make you all believe that I am a disgruntled ex-employee. WHY? What do I know or say that is so scary? The comedy of the thing is Fred, I say very little I just post information and ask questions that I think you should ask. Even more scary to somebody Fred is I post sources to experts and suggest that you ask them. THAT WAY I CAN'T LIE TO YOU CAN I FRED? 3.Who or what entity is selling and needs to sell this stock in order to survive? Every time more stock is sold what happens to your position? Should you be concerned? Should you have perhaps months ago been allowed to at least see a discussion about shareholder proposals and proxy's which could have carried your message to the company? In fact we now have a Philidelphia lawyer who tells you that HE doesn't think this thread can affect the price but his public company clients and their exec.'s think such threads are very important. Timmey tells us and don't forget INGRID tells us that the boys in BOHEMIA read this thread. Do you ever see any of them posting here? Is there some law that keeps them posting here? If they are here FRED might it help you if someone like me was allowed to say some things that might articulate a disgruntled shareholders or a potential shareholders point of view?? 4.What is the golden egg laying goose for this company? It doesn't seem to be dbx does it? What have they sold the most of product or shares of stock? Now consider this Fred, do you remember what the newly arrived self proclaimed championship debater told you? The debating Philidelphia lawyer said the WORTH of the additional 150 MILLION SHARES that the company now wants to dump is 10 Million Dollars. WOW his analysis not mine. Why do I say his not mine? Because Fred, they are doing better than that they way they are feeding it out at 10-15 million shares at a time via "convertable debentures" remember what David Curry got blasted for saying the last time he posted? He pointed out 12 million shares hit the market. Want confirmation that he was right? Read the 10-Q. At the rate they are feeding little bites into the market the company could realize about 40-50 Million Dollars for those 150 MILLION SHARES. That sounds good on the surface doesn't it? Well I don't think it is for two shareholder related reasons. First they way they do it all it does is keep the doors open and the Exec. salaries continueing ad infinitum. Second somebody mighty close is making a killing and it isn't any of you shareholders. Who is it that is making this killing, Fred ? Isn't it those insiders who keep getting the chance to buy the debentures that convert and then mysteriously double or triple in value after the conversions to diluting shares of stock? Is all of this just coincidence? Perhaps it is. Perhaps it is not. Is it manipulation or coincidence? I think at this point in time it is prudent to start asking some HARD questions. QUESTIONS like some who prowl this thread want silenced. Questions that I propose you ask independent experts that cannot be accused of being a liar like me. Fred if all of the HARD questions come back with innocent explanations that is not bad either. No person, no management team, and no company can ever improve if they dont have the guts to ask HARD questions that may lead to some PAINFUL answers. ONLY BY IDENTIFYING what is wrong can anyone or any company set out to make corrections that result in improved results. IYADWYADYAGWYAG Do you know what that means?

To: IncredibleHult who wrote (7451)	10/29/1997 12:47:00 PM
From: Rick	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12454

Fred a post I made back in June seems quite timely, perhaps even more so now. I WONDER WHAT PSYCO-PATHOLOGY OUR PHILIDELPHIA LAWYER WILL DIAGNOSE? ________________________________________________ ================================= To: +Rob Taylor (5081 ) From: +Rick Thursday, Jun 12 1997 8:58PM EST Reply #5088 Rob, I am going to use the closing of your post as an excellent point of my beginning a response to your post. >>>I realize these comments may not be received in the tone in which >>>they were intended, (that is one of honestly trying to use and >>>understand your input), but they are sincere and meant to add to >>>the usefullness of this thread. Until your comments are made so >>>that I can follow (and use) them, I will continue to use the >>>"next" button liberally. Please be more direct. Quite the contrary Rob I both perceive and received your comments in the spirit you describe. In fact there can be no greater compliment or showing of both honesty and sincerity than for someone to say that they are "honestly trying to use and understand your input". Such a spirit is an fine foundation for real communication. I thank you for that. I hope that my response will be received in the same spirit, as I try to directly hit every point you have raised. While you are free to use that "next" button at any moment let me start with the suggestion that if others had done that, you might feel less of a need to do so. >>>Rick, Even paranoids have enemies. I have often said much the same thing. While I don't believe I am paranoid I see no need to set myself out as a martyr either. That will accomplish very little in my estimation because I see nothing comparable to a great religious or political cause inherent in CCEE. ONLY MONEY possibly yours. >>>I'm sure you feel you are providing a service here, Hardly, If I was providing a service I would feel compelled to charge for it. Rather I am merely an observer and limited participant in what has become a fascinating project. >>>and you probably have factual information which would >>>help to clarify some of what has taken place with CCC >>>management and how the company has and is acting. > >>>What would make your input more useful to my limited >>>intelligence would be for you to abandon your didactic >>>style and state what you know and why it is factual. "Didactic" that is a somewhat familiar word by now. AUNTIE FAITH used to use it a lot about me. It can be a horrible sounding indictment can't it. The truth is (and Ginger could help us here I am sure) Websters defines it as: "1.a: designed or intended to teach b: intended to convey instruction and information as well as pleasure and entertainment." What is so bad about that? In fact it makes the attacks seem as ridiculous and self serving of the purposes of the attackers as they really are. Actually the indictment nature of the term (didactic) had its origin here at the earliest stage of my arrival when I was very direct about some observations vis-a vis the company and let drop some hint that I might be some kind of a teacher. Immediately to silence the substance of what I tried to inject into the dialog here were attacks on me personally for daring to "teach" people what they already "knew", didn't want to "learn" and sure as hell didn't want me to teach to them. Thus we were off on the "teacher" wars and the teacher jokes for days. This of course ties to what you say next: >>>I truthfully cannot follow your direction because >>>you tend to jump from thought to thought without >>>any closure. > I could not agree with you more. Now do two things: 1 look at the history of the thread since my arrival, and 2. Ask yourself WHY is it that every time "Rick" tries to get a discussion relating to substantive CCEE related issues that the subject is changed to attacks upon and discussion OF "Rick"????? Of course the answer to that question also relates to what I find disturbing here. >>>We have been on such topics as who and why the tennants >>>in the building with CCC are there and what their relationship >>>might be for over 4 months. Since you are trying to lead some >>>of the readers through documents which appear to be public, >>>wouldn't it be more productive to simply say what is on your mind? In a word Rob---NO!--That is not the voice of obstinacy speaking it is the voice of experience speaking. The voice of experience HERE for several months. There is an element of school gang psychology here that is pandered to, to stifle any direct discussion of "forbidden" areas. Of course anything that Auntie Faith perceives as "NEGATIVITY" is "forbidden". So I have slowly and painstakingly worked through the new kid on the block syndrome. I have met and beat every bully on the block and sent them home with their bloody noses and many have NEVER come back (perhaps that is to THEIR credit), because others like Auntie Faith although she keeps coming , keeps getting seen through like glass, and keeps destroying herself has not the sense to give it a rest. That is I suppose one definition of job dedication, --but dedication to what purpose?? You might say I am a professional "hangman" but all I do is give out rope and wait. In fact it is most interesting that this latest barrage of subject changing attacks is partially in response to my recent post to Bob Stone who was one of my earlier "anti-teacher" detractors who now some six months later and some FIFTY MILLION OR SO SHARES MORE OR LESS UNLEASHED ON THE MARKET announced that he had finally learned that "two plus two equals four" : exchange2000.com Now HOW or why he finally "learned" that I have no way of knowing except that it is one of those things that I tried to be very direct about (what was happening and what effect it would likely have) when I first arrived on the thread. At any rate he did finally "learn" albeit the hard way. >>>I really don't believe some "hit man" would track you down >>>for saying the truth. I tend to think if anyone really wanted >>>to find you, it wouldn't requrie more than an inquiry with the >>>right amount of cash to the right people to produce results. > Well Rob, the history of the world is replete with numerous examples of people painting bullseyes on the truth and its messengers and as I said I see no inherent value associated with CCEE to justify martyrdom. However there is a more pragmatic motivation at work here. New and younger, better educated, and more sophisticated generations are discovering that there is no need to soil ones hands or spirits with baser things like prostitution, gambling, extortion, or loan sharking. The "markets" are even more fertile toiling fields, and the internet delivers countless rubes at rates unimagined by earlier generations who were forced to await their arrival by bus. Thus you merely need take a sum as insignificant as three cents a share times one of those 2-4-6 or EIGHT MILLION SHARE HYPED UP RALLIES that have occurred since I have been here to see that there is sufficient monetary motivation to silence me. Although to date they have looked, new technology has allowed them to both look right at me and see nothing, as well as think they were looking at me only to discover that there was nothing there. What is funny is that the search they started is what started the scrutiny they abhor. Moreover if and when they do find me they will feel something akin to an infantryman who after crossing the field of battle and jumping into the enemy foxhole with a war hoop, finds that he has jumped right into the mouth of a big cannon. Although I have covered everything you said Rob let me close with this. THEY have created a situation which is the cause of the impossibility of granting the request that you made for directness. They have made a false issue of CREDIBILITY that has thwarted my early attempts to set out facts and discuss them. Thus they have in a very calculated way limited those who will learn to those few who are willing to look in the dark corners I propose to shine a flashlight into. The reason for this is that it is human nature that some people only believe the truth they discover for themselves and most only believe that when they pay dearly for the lesson learned. Hit your next button if you must, but many will return here when the tears and knashing of teeth begins and then they will SEE CLEARLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.