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Politics : A US National Health Care System? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: skinowski who wrote (8702)	8/26/2009 9:21:25 AM
From: ProDeath	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 42652

In 2008 we saw the largest preferential transfer payments in American history handed out to banks under the oversight of a Republican administration. If there is any one thing to be learned from that event, it is that in the modern world ideology is as thin as piss on a hot rock. With respect to the health care question ideologies are irrelevant and unnecessary as there is no reason to believe that all this whining we hear about fascists, Marxists, and bears oh my is anything other than projected material self-interest. Your characterization of your chosen bogeymen as believing they are the only ones who understand the historical process is not something that is particularly Marxist in character, in fact it describes the insane Neocons who dragged us into the Iraq war to a T, as well as fitting the "best and the brightest" of the 1960s who were quite unable to keep us out of the wholly senseless Vietnam adventure thanks to their ideological perspectives on the spread of communism. A choice between two failed "pure" ideologies, Marxism and capitalism, is being made daily, and the result is a synthesis. As far as evil goes, it transcends ideology by using it as a means to an end.

To: skinowski who wrote (8702)	8/26/2009 2:54:29 PM
From: Lane3	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 42652

It's not that Marxists can't come up with good specific ideas; they can. The problem is that their philosophy is evil - and therefore, inevitably, their outcomes. I responded to the statement made which was "Obama is a marxist, why would anyone support anything Obama came up with?" I responded to the blatant cognitive bias. (I tend to react to blatant cognitive biases. It's one of my pet peeves.) It is a fallacy to conclude that just because someone is a Marxist that he's incapable of anything of value. Marxists may apply Marxist principles to ideas about government social and economic systems, the result being unsupportable, but there are many things in life that are impervious to Marxist ideals. A Marxist may come up with a great new technique for removing an appendix or a killer pitch. The kind of cognitive bias in that statement shows up regularly not just with Marxists but with other disapproved classes of people such as atheists or gays or Yankee fans. It's both wrongheaded and bigoted. That was my point, my only point. I was in no way supporting Marxism, a system IMO as bass-ackwards and dangerous as any social and economic philosophy could be. I was standing up for critical thinking.