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To: Think4Yourself who wrote (123677)8/26/2009 5:19:15 PM
From: LoneClone  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 206317
 
When you start introducing new inputs into complex and interrelated sets of equilibria like those that make up climate, you will get all sorts of surprising events and outliers.

For instance, for the first time since records have been kept, a tropical storm will make it to the Aleutian Islands tomorrow.



LC



To: Think4Yourself who wrote (123677)8/26/2009 10:43:13 PM
From: Selectric II11 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 206317
 
Earth has been warming since the last ice age.

Spectacular events, such as volcanic eruptions, meteor strikes, and sunspot activity have affected the weather, to a degree (pun intended) that isn't fully understood. They're also sure to happen again. We just haven't experienced many (or any) of them in our short lifetimes, so we don't factor them in. Maybe Mt. St. Helens was the closest thing to something that really affected the climate.

All the king's men, computer models, and elite scientists can't predict too much of anything worth shit -- particularly if they don't have good data and scientific methods unadulterated by Gore-ism. Trends, maybe. Putting figures on it? Ha. Pinpointing the cause? Speculative.

An economics analogy: We just found out today that Obama's recent fiscal deficit projections by the smartest of the smart, elitist of the elite, were admittedly off by a mere $2 TRILLION. Bad modeling? And these are man-made phenomenon.

OOPS!

Not to mention the unemployment figure, which the emergency stimulus was to cap at 8% but now is about 16% including part-timers and those who are discouraged and lost hope.

If they can't predict man's behavior, how can they predict and model nature's?



To: Think4Yourself who wrote (123677)8/26/2009 11:29:03 PM
From: cyesp1 Recommendation  Respond to of 206317
 
OT - ADD GREENLAND TO THE LIST OF GROWING ICE SHEETS

Not sure how credible these folks are, but here is a different perspective on ice sheets. longrangeweather.com

By Climatologist Cliff Harris
Like the glaciers in Alaska and the huge Antarctic Icecap, the Greenland Ice Sheet is showing signs of growth, particularly in the interior regions of the enormous island.
While some of the ice has been melting in recent years around the edges of southwestern Greenland, similar to another warm period in the 1930s when the center of the North American Continent was experiencing ‘Dust Bowl’ conditions, most of the interior has seen snow and ice levels increase for decades on end.
For example, two massive radar sites constructed during the ‘Cold War Years’ of the 1950s=2 0and 1960s on Greenland have recently been abandoned, buried under huge mounds of built-up snow and ice, more than 20 feet thick in places.
My friend, Robert Felix, author of "Not by Fire, But by Ice," available through Sugarhouse Publishing, writes on page 204,
"On July 15, 1942, six P-38 Lightning fighter planes and two B-17 ‘Flying Fortresses’ took off from a base in Greenland on their way to England and World War II support of the British.
Flying into a "monster storm" near Iceland, they were forced to turn back. But, no matter which way they turned, the storm soon surrounded them and they lost their bearings.
Suddenly, the clouds parted and the huge Greenland Ice Sheet loomed below them. Low on fuel, with no way to make it back to their base, each of the pilots elected to land on the ice sheet.
Luckily, the planes escaped with just minor damage. The 25 crew members were able to walk to safety with only superficial injuries.
Under normal circumstances, the planes would have been recovered and put quickly back into service. But in this case, salvaging them would have cost more than they were worth. So, there they sat for the next 40 years.
But, by the 1980s, these planes had become extremely valuable collectors’ items. It someone were to retrieve and restore one of those P-38s to flying condition, it would fetch perhaps a million dollars. So, the search began.
During the ne xt several years, more than a dozen expeditions set out to find the so-called ‘Lost Squadron,’ all to no avail.
But, on June 30, 1988, nearly 21 years ago, a group from Middleboro, Kentucky, using an ‘icescope’ — a radar device able to see beneath the surface — detected large object under the ice big enough to be a B-17!
To make this long story a bit shorter, they pumped hot water through what they called a "super gopher tube" melting a tunnel down to the planes.
Originally, the group had calculated that these World War II planes were buried under about 40 feet of ice. Instead, their tunnel went straight down an incredible 268 feet — twenty-seven stories!"
Folks, as Bob Felix pointed out, this huge ice buildup occurred in just 46 years, at an astounding rate of nearly six feet per year.
As I mentioned last week, the Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing faster than we’re ever been led to believe. In fact, the Old Byrd Weather Station has been crushed in recent years by more than 50 feet of ice.
The original Syple and South Pole stations are likewise buried under the ice. In fact, a new South Pole station was built on top of the one that was buried. I again rest my case...global ice, on the whole, is EXPANDING, not CONTRACTING.