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To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 7:00:53 AM
From: Bearcatbob	Respond to of 206118

First, be very very careful. Here are two. Welcome to ProShares proshares.com We're the world's largest manager of short and leveraged funds.1 Our 90 ETFs provide exposure to major indexes representing U.S. and foreign equities, fixed-income and commodities. Short ProShares – Hedge against downturns, or seek profit when markets decline, with the first ETFs designed to go up when indexes go down or down when indexes go up on a daily basis (before fees and expenses). Ultra ProShares – Get more exposure for your investment dollars with the first ETFs designed to double the daily performance of popular market indexes (before fees and expenses). Alpha ProShares – Get access to advanced investment strategies. Most ProShares ETFs Target Daily Returns – Each Short or Ultra ProShares ETF seeks a return that is either 300%, 200%, -100%, -200% or -300% of the return of an index or other benchmark (target) for a single day. Due to the compounding of daily returns, ProShares' returns over periods other than one day will likely differ in amount and possibly direction from the target return for the same period. Investors should monitor their ProShares holdings consistent with their strategies, as frequently as daily. For more on correlation, leverage and other risks, please read the prospectus. direxionfunds.com Direxion Funds is a leading provider of leveraged index and other alternative class mutual fund products for investment advisors and sophisticated investors who seek to effectively manage risk and return in both bull and bear markets. Bob

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 7:11:27 AM
From: Julius Wong	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206118

Do Not Buy and Hold 3X ETFs for long Term Message 25698627

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 8:48:35 AM
From: tom pope	Respond to of 206118

there is no futures risk My first question would be to ask how they achieve that?

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 9:27:51 AM
From: Triffin	Respond to of 206118

Buck .. "So, is there any of you knowledgeable enough in financial investments to try to make a guess as to what highly leveraged inverse investment vehicles he's talking about that could possibly generate those kinds of returns should the financial sector crumble severely....where the total risk is limited to the original investment" The only possible way to get 40:1 returns with the risk "limited to the initial investment" would be thru the purchase of 'put' or 'call' options on the leveraged ETFs offered by ProShares or Direxion mentioned by Bearcatbob in reply to your post .. Triff ..

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 10:26:43 AM
From: Sweet Ol	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 206118

Buck, I trade SKF, a double short ETF, quite a bit. Right now I expect to go heavily into it today or tomorrow - whenever the goat entrails tell me the market has turned back down. I do believe that the Financial stocks are heavily manipulated, or else the WS gurus are really stupid. They are definitely over priced based on their future prospects. However, they may know that the government is going to give them more of our tax money and eventually make them very profitable. So, I play them with stops and watch the waves develop to guide me. Best of luck, JRH

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 12:57:28 PM
From: Sweet Ol	Respond to of 206118

The FDIC admits it is broke and the banks are insolvent and yet the XLF bank index is up 2.7% today. Go figure!!! Message 25994457 How much you want to bet that the mainstream media reports this mess? Best, JRH

To: buckbldr who wrote (124635)	10/5/2009 11:19:29 PM
From: edward miller	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 206118

Unless you are still an active trader who can make money trading daily or weekly swings I would stay away. These leveraged investment vehicles all get leverage through investments that have time value loss. No expiration date just means that you can keep losing lots of money if you are on wrong side. You can lose money much faster than you can win money. Let me show you the leveraged vehicle based on XLF. These are FAS and FAZ, and they started trading near the beginning of November 2008. First look at the chart of XLF over the same time period: stockcharts.com Note that XLF opened at 14.62 on the first day of trading for FAS and FAZ, dropping to 5.80 at the March low and rising to today's close of 14.74. Compare with the results for FAS and FAZ. Next is FAS, the 3X bullish ETF: stockcharts.com Note how from a start of 276.57 it dropped all the way down to 11.56 in March and has recovered only to 74.14. That is only 27% of its value at the beginning of trading while XLF is about even. So the bullish 3X ETF has lost over 70% of its value in less than one year. Now look at FAZ, especially how it did as an investment when XLF crashed from 14.74 to 5.80: stockcharts.com FAZ started trading at 602.20, then peaked at over 2000 intraday in late November but only reached 1155 at the March bottom, only ~92% gain from the start of trading. The better trade would have been to short XLF for 154% profit. It is supposed to be 3X leverage. What happened? Time shrinkage. These vehicles are only good for short term trades, not investments. Don't overlook the losses when you are wrong. While XLF rose from 5.80 at the March bottom to 14.74 today, FAZ has been wiped out! Down from 1155.00 to 21.30 at today's close is a 98.2% loss. Of course the effects are amplified for 3X leverage versus 2X leverage, but I would argue that only means you lose money a little slower - but you will lose money on average unless you are a great trader.