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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (58656)	12/4/2009 9:39:10 PM
From: Snowshoe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 217801

>>Carbon taxes seem to be a certainty in the next one to two years.<< I don't think it's a done deal... Australia's carbon-trading legislation fails news.yahoo.com

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (58656)	12/5/2009 1:13:49 AM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217801

Al Gore loses his cash cow: Cancels $1,200 Per Handshake Event In Copenhagen Do the "unforeseen changes" have anything to do with the unforeseen changes in climate change evidence? online.wsj.com

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (58656)	12/5/2009 9:25:33 AM
From: average joe	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 217801

Well Malcolm if you mean is the future of green energy going to be rife with fraud I must agree. However there will be a quick end to this carbon nonsense because the younger generation with the help of the internet and their own brains will be able to see what a fraud your generation is perpetuating By the way it was the Catholics who invented original sin not your hero David Suzuki. Why are they all smirking and wearing black. They look like a latter day Pangea death cult Europe's flagship carbon trading scheme suffered a blow today as the Danish government was forced to rush an emergency law through parliament to clamp down on a virulent form of VAT fraud. On the eve of the Copenhagen climate talks, which will attract world attention to emissions trading schemes, police and tax investigators across Europe are believed to be investigating hundreds of millions of euros worth of fraud involving carbon quotas originating in Denmark. Since British, French and Dutch governments took similar action in the summer, much of the "carousel" fraud involving carbon credits moved to Denmark, where registration of carbon quotas for the European Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) is easy and a VAT rate of 25% makes the fraud attractive to international criminals. Experts said today that Copenhagen had long been an accident waiting to happen in terms of carousel fraud. Richard Ainsworth, professor of VAT policy at Boston University in the US said: "It is extremely surprising that after the French, British and Dutch had to move against this fraud in the summer that the Danes did not act more quickly, especially with the climate summit about to start." The Danish government today said it did not know how much money it had lost to the fraud but the number is likely to run into hundreds of millions – if not billions – of kroner. A spokesman for the Danish Energy and Climate Ministry, which supervises Denmark's carbon quota registry, said the rules for registration were being immediately tightened so anyone applying to trade carbon would face stringent checks. The fraud occurs when a trader of carbon credits in one EU country buys some from another country free of VAT, then sells them on, charging the VAT to the buyer. The seller then disappears without handing the VAT to the taxman. Some criminals re-export the credits, reclaiming VAT as they do so, then re-import them. They can do this repeatedly, reclaiming VAT many times, hence the "carousel" label. Britain lost billions of pounds to carousel fraud, mainly on mobile phones, in 2006 and 2007 before the government changed the mobile trade so that tax was levied only on the final buyer. The Danes have now introduced similar reforms – a day after a meeting of European financial officials rubber stamped a European Commission decision from September recommending that member states do so. The news is an embarrassment for the European ETS and for carbon trading generally, which is attracting a growing number of critics. Europe's carbon market is worth about €90bn a year. It is a combination of futures and spot trading and it is the largely unregulated spot market that was targeted this summer by the fraudsters. Recent figures from consultants New Energy Finance showed that the ETS suffered its first ever drop in trading volumes in the third quarter of this year because the second quarter had been hugely inflated by fraudulent trades going across France's Bluenext exchange. French VAT rules have now changed. The European Commission has estimated in the past that EU governments were losing more money to carousel fraud each year than they spent on the Common Agricultural Policy. guardian.co.uk

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (58656)	12/5/2009 2:18:08 PM
From: benwood	1 Recommendation Respond to of 217801

I think that would put a damper on things, but I think an economic recovery, at least in the near term, would be a bigger driver. That, plus demand escalating in China and India especially. So for the recovery... ? I don't see how a jobless "recovery" can stick esp. with the main personal debt drivers -- credit cards and real estate, awol for the rest of my generation. And Fed debt will only be celebrated until people look down and discover they stepped off the ledge a long time ago.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (58656)	12/6/2009 5:12:18 PM
From: energyplay	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217801

I don't know if we can say we want to avoid oil. Not much of a substitute as a transportation fuel. The end products, gasoline, diesel, jet A have all been taxed for a long time. Also crude oil production taxes have been around for a long time. A carbon tax of $5 a ton will affect $40 a ton coal. Barrell of oil 42 gal X 8 pounds per gallon. So about 6 barrells per short ton. The tax would be under $5/6 = $0.83 on a $70 barrel. (ignoring most of the hydrogen which could be >1/8 of the weight. Run the tax up to $30 a ton, that punishes coal and drives renewables to make electricty, but is only another $5 on $70 oil.