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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SARMAN who wrote (271887)	12/9/2009 10:10:16 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Did you read the comments to that article? And do you think it's just the Jewish lobby that has a "veto"? The Evangelical Christians are ALSO mighty damn strong in that regard. Anyway.. I found this comment that I think sums up the situation very nicely. In sum, if there's a conspiracy, it's not coming from Israel, but from domestic sources of influence. And that influence extends into Israeli politics as well.. If you think the American Jewish lobby has a veto here in the US, just imagine the level of control they have in Israel!!: from Walt's usual analysis of this subject is how INCREDIBLY competitive Israel advocacy is in the United States. The fight for the same dollars from the same people means that these organizations have to be ridiculously strident in their pronunciations to get heard and raise money. As part of that competition for who can scream the sky is falling loudest, they also have target even trivial issues, i.e. Rosenthal, random academics, throw away lines in wire service copy, etc. People also overstate the role of the Israeli government in these efforts, as well as the level of coordination between the different organizations. The competition is so fierce that the Israeli government agencies charged with public diplomacy usually try to stay out of these battles (although they are rarely disappointed with the result). For example, pressure for Ambassador Oren to stay away from J Street did not come from Israel -- it came from more right-wing American organizations that the Israeli Foreign Ministry did not want to piss off. Further, it should also be noted that anywhere from a third to a half of all the money raised for primary elections in Israel comes from the United States. That's officially; unofficially, the percentage is higher. So when we are talking about the Israeli lobby in the US and its activities, it is important to keep in mind how very American the whole thing is (Israel is mainly the trophy). In other words, don't blame the Jews; blame our First Amendment right to oligarchy. Finally, the Israeli press (Haaretz, especially the English version, is not representative of mainstream Israeli opinion) talks a lot, and rather openly, about the role of Jewish organizations and Jewish money in American politics. It is something that affects Israelis a great deal, and not something they have a tremendous amount of control over. They do a worse job covering the Christian Zionists in the US, for reasons I won't get into.

To: SARMAN who wrote (271887)	12/9/2009 10:44:54 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

That IS an interesting article Sarman.. and I appreciate you're bringing it to my attention. haaretz.com "The United States' support for Israel need not be - nor should it be - an either-or proposition that dictates our relationships with our Arab allies and friends. The U.S. has a long and special relationship with Israel, but it must not come at the expense of our Arab relationships," Hagel said. For one thing, it seems to indicate that the Arab lobby is strong enough to make Hagel equalize his views on Israel to those with the Arabs. On the sheer basis of comparative politics, I don't believe we should diminish our relationship with a democracy in favor of a dictatorship, AND ESPECIALLY governments, such as Lebanon, where the real power is Syria and Hizballah, with the latter being a Militant Religious organization with strong ties to Iran and a genocidal agenda similar to Hamas. So.. with Hagel opting not to declare Hizballah to be a terrorist organization means that he's being bought by some Arab interest. Because that's just such a "no-brainer" and it's just craziness to NOT declare Hizballah, or Hamas, to be terrorist groups, given their public pronouncements against the US and the rest of the world. I wouldn't want him as National Intelligence Coordinator either. As for Rosenthal, I know nothing about her, nor do I care to, and I suspect you don't care about her either. But it's pretty clear that there is a schism within the Jewish lobby, because many prominent Jews were supporting her nomination. Sounds like there's a bit of blacklisting going on within the Jewish Lobby that serves like a Jewish version of McCarthyism. But from all the criticism I see within the Press and MSM for Israel, it's apparent they don't have as much control as you believe. After all, they couldn't stop Ha'aretz from publishing this article.. ;0) Hawk