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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (272502)	1/3/2010 11:50:09 AM
From: Maurice Winn	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Since it is in fact a religious war, we might as well see it in those terms: <while I'm understand your views regarding Islam, and certainly concur that it's been a violent faith over the centuries, the same argument could be made for Christianity and Judaism at various points in history. Western Nations have supposedly forsaken "empire building" over the past 50-80 years. But the Muslim world hasn't gotten the message and the militants still believe they have the right to restore their Caliphate. At this point in my life, and seeing the events unfold as they are, I have few illusions about preventing what I see as an inevitable clash of civilizations. I'm not sure it's preventable. I just hope that we can prevent it from becoming "Christianity versus Islam" > Christianity has been subverted over millennia. The central symbol of Christianity is the crucifixion which is nothing less than a manifestation of the result of the free individual versus the all powerful state. That battle has been fought always - the alpha males fighting to gain ascendancy and the right to do anything in their enjoyment of power, with no challenge to be allowed. Islamic Jihad is continuing that battle for supremacy. Unfortunately, in the "free" Western world, the individual is being increasingly subsumed by the state to the extent that I would not be surprised to find one day there's greater actual freedom in Islamic states. I bet I wouldn't be hassled in Afghanistan for choosing not to wear a crash helmet on my bicycle. Heck, I could even grow opium and consume heroin, which is frowned on in NZ. The other rules they impose might be burdensome though. Unfortunately for peaceful religions, and Islam too, the logic of human population over the centuries was that fighting was built into the process. So, while they had aspirations for peace, it wasn't actually possible. The tribe which had the babies won the wars by weight of numbers. The tribes which had too many people for their territories were forced to fight for territorial expansion to gain hunter-gatherer and agricultural opportunities, or starve. If a tribe did keep their numbers sustainable, they would not be long for this world [the males anyway] because a neighbouring tribe would do the usual genocidal conquest. In the absence of contraception, there wasn't really a way to keep numbers of people sustainable. Young people get randy, babies get born. Managing that basic fact was what humans have been forced to adapt to. It was a Malthusian fact. Forever, the answer was genocidal conquest. Chimps do it. It has been going on a long time - since humans were chimpoid. The current situation is that since the invention of contraception, that process has been interrupted. Now, women and men choose to have babies. No longer do sexually active women who survive have something like 10 or even 20 babies merely by doing what comes naturally. Now, they might or might not have 1, or possibly 2 for the daring. That, along with globalisation, changes the Western impetus. Japan doesn't have a big surplus of young males. Neither does Germany. Russia is getting thin on the ground too. We also trade with each other so destroying Japanese car factories and Russian oil and gas wells makes no sense. The logic of the places where Peak People has already happened, or will happen by 2037, is that genocidal war is of no value. Unfortunately, in Sarman's realm, the value of people is very low so the age-old logic makes sense - conquer and kill the neighbouring tribes. In his thinking, 1,000 Arabs are worth only 1 Jew [they set the price in negotiations with Israel over hostages]. That shows why they can cheerfully load up young people with suicide bombs = they have a big surplus of them and as traditionally, a good thing to do with such spare people is to send them off to conquer or be killed. Either way, it solves a problem for them. Fortunately, modern war doesn't work by having legions of rank and file wielding pikes and scimitars. An atomic bomb and heat sensing and optics from low earth orbit or high-flying aircraft is much more effective. Islamic Jihad has the numbers to make them fight. So we should expect them to do so. Maoris used to live like that. The British arrived and backed tribes which backed them, then signed an overall deal. Maoris could see that it was much better to sign up than to continue the stone age Malthusian ways. So, the odd skirmishing aside, peace reigned and Maoris now wear pants for the most part, live in nice, warm, modern houses and can do what they want. Contraception is the best bet for avoiding Islamic Jihad carnage. Get the population growth rate down to nothing and the problem goes away. The bosses of Islam don't want that of course, because the logic of over-populated Malthusianism is their way to obtain increased power. So it's not simply a matter of teaching people about contraception. But there's hope. The Pope is against contraception too, for the same reason, but look what is happening in Italy = population decline. Individuals act in their own interests, not those of the state. They do not wish to be crucified by state megalomaniacs. Christianity is about the individual versus the state. Christians should be Libertarians. Islam is about the state versus the individual. It is a religious war, as well as a Malthusian one. One side can decide the relationship, just as a rapist does. Moslems have decided on Islamic Jihad. The rest of us don't have a choice - we are their intended targets. Mqurice