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To: koan who wrote (60865)	2/8/2010 1:16:50 PM
From: Lazarus	2 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 217593

I think you have a skewed view... Poor guy. Has a 1.5 million house paid off more than likely he paid around $75 - 100k and worked hard to pay it off. most people when they bought homes back then (like my father) never thought in their wildest dreams they would be worth what they are today. That means he is a millionair able to hide his tax bill. get a farking life! IT MEANS HIS HOUSE IS WORTH A MILLION+ DOLLARS which has absolutely nothing to do with what HE IS WORTH. If he was so rich he wouldnt still be working (which he is). I'm certain his pension/ss/etc is a modest sum that NEVER assumed having to pay $1500.00 per month in property taxes. There was an old guy in our church who had a farm on one of our main streets that was worth MILLIONS. His home on that property was little more than a simple shack. He drove a 1977 plymouth valiant that he purchased new. DO YOU REALLY THINK THESE FOLKS WHO BOUGHT LAND MANY YEARS BACK AT HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS PER ACRE SHOULD BE OBLIGATED TO PAY TAXES AT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS PER ACRE? One of the main purposes of prop 13 was to prevent older people from getting TAXED OFF THEIR PROPERTIES.

To: koan who wrote (60865)	2/8/2010 3:11:14 PM
From: energyplay	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217593

> Most Californians are willing to pay reasonable costs for social services, but not heavily back loaded pension costs on top of above average salaries for government workers. There are many specific city parcel taxes that pass each year for schools, police and fire, etc. California has been paying too much for most government workers for the past twenty years, and politicians cater to government workers for political support - support form teachers, prison guards. > Many Californians are willing to pay for various emergency services. They don't want to pay for the excessive welfare load and massive number of illegal aliens. The county I live in, Santa Clara, used to be know as "Santa Claus County" because they indexed welfare payments to local housing costs. Since Santa Clara is effectively Silicon Valley, rents went up during the long boom, and welfare payments followed. The county got smart, and cut their payments back to more closely match the rest of the state. They also encouraged the long term welfare people - who could not or would not find work even in boom times - to move somewhere that was cheaper to live, usually the Central Valley. There, most of them had better housing options and lower costs for food, and the possibility of jobs that matched their skill levels. Most people are willing to pay for services they may use - police, fire, water, schools, roads, and hospitals. Those are used by the rich, middle class, and poor. They don't want to pay heavily for poor people specific services. Again, note that California has 13% of the US population and 30% of the welfare cases, and 3 million of the 13 million illegal aliens. Those poor and illegal people are both a direct cost and a burden on all over services, including schools, police, prisons,and hospitals. They need to leave. As Woody Guthrie put it - California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see; But believe it or not, you won't find it so hot If you ain't got the do re mi. The state of California doesn't have the do re mi to support excessive poor. digihitch.com

To: koan who wrote (60865)	2/8/2010 4:26:25 PM
From: RJA_	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 217593

Hi Koan, normally you make sense... but not IMHO this time. __________ In Colorado, we have two tax limitation measures: TABOR (tax payer bill of rights) and Gallagher amendment. Both act to limit government tax increases to the level of inflation... and prevent any new taxes or tax increases without a vote. __________ Some folks have been lucky enough, and have worked hard enough to save and buy a place of their own... and pay it off. Without tax limitation measures, those folks wind up renting their home from the state for over $1000/mo. Retirement eventually hits us all, and unless you have an independent source of wealth or income, you can be taxed out of your home. In S. Florida taxes and insurance on a home that cost $210k in 1995 and $285k in 2000 now has taxes and insurance of roughly $12 - 15k on an annual basis (as per tales from our old neighbors). In Colorado, taxes and insurance for a nicer place on acreage are roughly $4k. There are lots of arguments about the needs for roads, education, and government this and that. But none of them make any sense if the end result is confiscation. Hows that from an old liberal?