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To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/3/2010 1:19:00 PM
From: DMaA	13 Recommendations Respond to of 793895

My understanding/belief is that rights are granted to citizens via governments, it's a legal thing. That is radically different from the founder's point of view. Anyone who embraces this idea is denying the legitimacy of the American Revolution and so is a radical counter-revolutionary. An atheist can view god as a legal fiction if he wants. The key is that the only way we have found even a modicum of freedom in this world is to separate our rights from our government. And to place our rights on a higher legal plane than our government. If we give this concept up all is lost.

To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/3/2010 2:35:01 PM
From: KLP	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793895

I see DMaA just has a wonderful explanation for you. Your comment: I'm not religious. I'm also not sure what unalienable means... My Reply: Surely you believe in something beside yourself. Do you want to subsitute Nature/the Universe/the All that Is. etc? It doesn't matter. There IS something else beside yourself. Inalienable absolute, inherent. something that cannot be transferred or sold or taken by anyone else Re Inalienable (sorry for the misspelling earlier) en.wikipedia.org Discussion of Natural and Legal Rights….

To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/3/2010 2:40:06 PM
From: Neeka	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793895

Unalienable means "cannot be taken away."

To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/3/2010 8:04:43 PM
From: ManyMoose	12 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793895

My understanding/belief is that rights are granted to citizens via governments, it's a legal thing. If one's rights are denied by some entity, one uses the legal system to get justice and get them reinstated. Wrong. Rights are granted by God the Creator, whether or not you believe in Him. In the case of our Constitution, our God-given rights are protected, not granted. Government can only take away rights, not grant them.

To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/4/2010 11:27:04 AM
From: DMaA	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793895

Thank you for that challenge. It's good to think about our core principles from time to time.

To: Elroy who wrote (357446)	4/4/2010 11:47:09 AM
From: LindyBill	9 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793895

My understanding/belief is that rights are granted to citizens via governments, That's the POV that the Left uses to install slavery. The genius of the Declaration of Independence was the concept that "Rights" belong to the individual and he grants the use of force to his Government to maintain them. "Individualism" was the key POV. The terminology at the time of the 18th century "Enlightenment" was such that this was referred to as "God Granted." However, the Founders, who were mainly Deists, understood the secular concept we use today. The "Citizen/Government" battle will never cease.