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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Krowbar who wrote (13555)	11/8/1997 1:47:00 AM
From: JF Quinnelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Hitler was an avid follower of Martin Luther, and all Nazis had "Got mit uns" (God with us),on their belt buckles. Wrong war, Del. Gott mit uns is from the Kaiser's WWI army. Hitler wasn't even a follower of Martin Luther as a child, since his family had been Catholic. His attempted assassins did include the Lutheran Pastor Dietrich Bonhoffer, along with a group of Catholic officers. Hitler let some of them drink poison, and hung others with piano wire. The Nazi movement was a mishmash that included a good deal of pretend paganism, from its swastika to the stories in Wagner's operas. It even created a "German People's Church", to replace Christianity and its semitic origins. Nazi Culture, Mosse. Hey, why not blame the Holocaust on the Atheists now? No need to. The USSR showed us what official atheism can do. The Gulag will suffice, and it even has a bigger body count. In the mass-murder sweepstakes, atheism can claim a win.

To: Krowbar who wrote (13555)	11/12/1997 3:14:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Yes, Del, it is okay to discuss stocks here!!! I saw "Eat at Joe's" and was really interested in the concept, but it was in MoneyWorld, that horrible small stock rag that seems to just keep coming in my mail uninvited, so I was extremely skeptical. Had I known that you had actually been to one, I would have given the whole idea a lot more credence. Did you actually eat there? I especially liked the idea that it has breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks like malts and French fries. I think a lot of people are getting pretty tired of total fast food, and yet don't have time to cook much at home. It sounds fun for children, also. I think you are right about Promise Keepers being very political. This url is from NOW, which is of course political as well (in supporting the rights of women, however), but seems credible since it uses quotes from Promise Keepers, etc.: now.org I am having a little trouble understanding why men cannot simply be good husbands and fathers because it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!!! Why do we need an organization which through the means of huge rallies (mass hysteria), has to get men all pepped up change their errant ways using religion. Why cannot we be motivated by morals and ethics instead? Maybe it has something to do with the whole concept I have noted time and time again, whereby people who are out of control in the way they treat their families, or with drugs, or alcohol, or antisocial behavior in general, seek religion--a very strict and stringent list of rules--to control their behavior. Why don't they realize that it is the individual who has power, who can change his own behavior? Do some people really need the threat of going to Hell to make them change, when the reward of seeing all the happy and secure people around them, and just feeling better, should be enough? Incidentally, for those of you who are interested, tomorrow night on the tv program "20/20", Bill McCartney, the founder of Promise Keepers, will discuss his long-term alcoholism and fidelity, and how the strain on their marriage led his wife, Lindi, to bulimia and thoughts of suicide. He says that a religious experience in 1974 led him to quit drinking, but in the intereview Lindy says that her husband's founding Promise Keepers did not help their relationship, because it was another way he was gone from her: "Promise Keepers was reaching out to men and women all over the country and it's like I don't like you, 'cause you're another thief in my life." McCartney, the forner University of Colorado football coach, said his inattention to his wife "exposed (him) as a fraud." "I've been challenging guys in football to have character . . . I didn't have character. Because a real man doesn't show up in his wife's face full of anguish. A real man brings his wife to splendor. So I realized I'm a fraud. I'm not what I thought I was."