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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (8682)	11/26/2010 5:38:28 PM
From: Oeconomicus	1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

"Plato loved democracy, a paragraph below." <<The result is a "democracy" (dêmokratia; dêmos, "people"), the rule of the people. Plato pays grudging respect to democracy as the "fairest" (kallistê, "most beautiful") of constitutions. The principle of this state is the desire of the many. This is "democratic" in the sense that all desires are equally good, which means anything goes. Because the desires and possessions of some inevitably interfere with the desires and acquisitiveness of others, Plato thinks that democracies will become increasing undisciplined and chaotic. In the end, people will want someone to institute law and order and quiet things down. Giving sufficient power to someone to do that leads to the next kind of state. >> The paragraph you quote (without citation, BTW, which is kinda rude) does not support your contention that "Plato loved democracy." In fact, it supports mine - that he rejected it, believing it unsustainable and necessarily leading to tyranny. Plato's ideal city-state was ruled, as I said before, by philosopher kings who along with the warriors made up the "guardian" class, which held all power. All this is explained the same place I found the paragraph you quoted, that is friesian.com. Also, while Plato undoubtedly influences modern American "liberals", neither he nor they are liberal in the classical sense in which the word applies to America's founding fathers. Liberal, from the Latin liberalis: pertaining to freedom. ETA: It's also fairly obvious why modern, as opposed to classical, liberals are attracted to Plato. They tend to imagine themselves to be philosophers, governed by reason rather than desire, and thus entitled to be part of the Guardian class. However, modern liberals seem to misunderstand what it means to be a Guardian. I prescribe further reading.