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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (32064)	2/5/2011 2:18:19 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

At least coal works as advertised unlike wind power. Wind turbines rarely produce their advertised full power. On average, wind turbines only produce about 20% of their nameplate rating. Wind power is unreliable and undispatchable. It will likely be unavailable to provide any power when it is needed most. Wind power is not clean. It takes a lot of dirty energy to make the materials, manufacture and install a wind turbine facility. Wind turbines are not environmentally friendly. They are noisy, unsightly, kill bats and birds, interfere with radars, and have been shown to be responsible for a slew of health problems. Wind turbines consume electricity whether operating or not. Often this power is not even metered. Care to guess who is paying the bill for this power? In theory, if 20% of US electric generation was replaced by wind power, the decrease in CO2 emissions would be an unnoticeable 0.00948%. In reality, wind power doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all, because backup fossil power plants have to cycle wildly and inefficiently trying to keep up with erratic wind power output. Wind power will not replace fossil fired power plants. Germany estimates that by 2020 up to 96% of its wind power capacity will need to be backed up by new coal fired power plants. Wind power will not reduce US dependency on foreign oil. If wind power replaced 20% of US electric generation, the resulting decrease in oil imports would be a measly 0.292%. Wind turbines have an embarrassingly low Energy Returned On Energy Invested value of 0.29. The manufacture, installation and operation of wind power facilities will consume more than 3 times the energy they will ever produce. windpowerfraud.com

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (32064)	2/5/2011 2:22:11 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

and more subsidies of course Clean energy is one of the money making sectors: Siemens By SiliconIndia Monday, 10 January 2011, 00:17 Hrs Bangalore: Siemens a global supplier in electronics and electrical engineering whose products are used in the energy and Healthcare sector is planning to expand its presence in the wind energy sector. The renewable energy division of Siemens shows that the company sees clean energy as one of the money making sectors and has recorded a sale of 977 million euros as of September 30th 2010. New orders rose 85 percent to 1.45 billion euros. The unit made 103 million euros for the quarter and 368 million euros for the fiscal year. The wind energy division brought about 5 percent of the profit of the total yearly profit for Siemens. Siemens is stepping up its investments in U.S. and Canada. The reason for expansion for Siemens is to aim a becoming one of the top three suppliers of wind power equipment in the world. Wind power equipment makers in U.S. have faced a few challenges with the government incentives and the plunge in the price of natural gas,which made wind energy less competitive. Also the financial crisis has made it difficult for the smaller operators to get loans for building wind parks. Siemens has also planned to expand its wind parks in India and Russia. China, world's largest market for wind power is one of the most difficult markets to enter because of the strict government policies which only favour local companies.Siemens recently opened a factory in Shanghai.They chose this part because it is on the water and a good place from which to ship equipment for offshore wind parks. Close competition lies between Siemens and companies like Sinovel, Goldwind and Dongfang as these companies offer lower prices, with financing and also force down prices for better profit margins. siliconindia.com

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (32064)	2/5/2011 3:10:40 PM
From: Maurice Winn	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

Reduced need for irrigation and more CO2 to breathe is a benefit not a cost: <The coal industry was responsible for 2,237 megatons of carbon-dioxide-equivalent greenhouse pollution in 2008, 38 percent of the United States footprint. The cost of this “market externality” is between $60 and $600 billion every year, given expert estimates for the cost to human civilization of manmade climate change. > The theoretical warming isn't working out too well, with reglaciation underway across the USA and down into Mexico. Mqurice