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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Krowbar who wrote (13642)	11/14/1997 1:57:00 AM
From: JF Quinnelly	Respond to of 108807

>>The evidence for the Biblical account of a Creator is non-existent. I conclude that the world, and the Universe, are self-existent. Let's see, the Big Bang has the Universe appearing ex-nihilo. Genesis has the Universe being created ex-nihilo. If the Universe was self-existent, where was it before the Big Bang? The similarity was enough to cause one prominent British mathematician to reject Einstein, but even he threw in the towel in the 70s as the evidence for the Big Bang piled up. Your objection actually doesn't stand up because you cross categories, confounding epistemology with measurement. This was a basic fault in Logical Positivism, which is similar to the argument which you are making. The evidence for a Creator has to addressed in the field of epistemology and philosophy, not in the world of the material, just as the rules for scientific knowledge are debated in epistemology.

To: Krowbar who wrote (13642)	11/14/1997 6:31:00 PM
From: Skipper	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Del, First of all, I said nothing about the "Biblical account" of creation, nor would I say that creation precludes evolution. I think evolution is rather obvious, as I've stated before. I am not a Christian, nor do I associate myself with any other organized religion, paganism, atheism, agnosticism or any other such label. I will accept the label of Rationalist, as long as there is a common understanding of what that means. Labels are generally not very useful though. I think that you believe more of the Bible than I do. You seem to accept the Bible's teaching that God is good, and throw up all the old arguments about how could he do all these evil things to us? Well maybe God is responsible for all those things you mention. You seem to be saying that since you don't like that idea, it can't be true. Anyway, if you don't want to believe in God, that's your business. But I do not accept your evidence, which is totally lacking so far, that I was not created. As I tried to say before, it's a personal matter, and I don't believe there is any objective proof one way or the other. Skipper