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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (168103)	8/7/2011 12:34:08 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 543919

My opinion...more right wing poop VA denies censorship at Houston National Cemetery By LINDSAY WISE HOUSTON CHRONICLE July 18, 2011, 8:22PM The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has denied allegations of religious censorship at Houston National Cemetery — accusations that have sparked calls for investigations from members of Congress — according to a new document filed in federal court. The document is the government's first detailed response to a lawsuit that accuses VA officials and cemetery director Arleen Ocasio of closing the cemetery chapel, banning volunteer groups from saying the words "God" or "Jesus" at burial services, and forbidding the groups from religious recitations or prayers during the services unless families submitted the texts to her for approval. The lawsuit's claims are factually inaccurate, argues assistant U.S. attorney Fred Hinrichs in the 21-page document filed Friday in Houston's federal courthouse. Ocasio and other cemetery employees never banned religious words such as God and Jesus, do not censor the content of prayer or religious speech from burial services, do not require written approval for religious rituals, and are not engaged in unlawful religious discrimination, according to the document. "In every instance, defendants have sought to honor and respect the religious preferences, if any, of the families of deceased veterans during private committal services," the document reads. Houston National Cemetery employees give families the option of reciting any religious or non-religious text they choose at burial services, the document explains, and do not provide any religious or non-religious text when it is not desired by the families. Registered VA volunteers who attend burial services at the cemetery have agreed to abide by VA policies, and do not have "a right to interject their own religious beliefs into the private committal services of others," the document argues. The document also contests the lawsuit's description of the cemetery chapel's closure. Religious symbols The chapel was temporarily closed because of "construction fumes and noise" in 2010, but reopened July 5, the document states, adding that the chapel bells have continued to toll each day except for one week this spring. A Bible, cross and Star of David that had been displayed inside the chapel were removed in 2009, before Ocasio'stenure as director, according to the document. Mourners who attended a service in the chapel had complained the symbols gave "the appearance of government religious bias," the document states, and the items are now stored within the chapel and available for use during a burial service if requested by a family. Mourner's complaint One of the most striking allegations contained in the lawsuit was that cemetery officials had ordered National Memorial Ladies to stop telling families "God bless you," and to remove "God bless" from condolence cards. The VA responds in the document filed Friday that the cemetery had received a complaint about a year ago from a family member who was upset that military funeral honors had included references to Christianity although the family had specifically requested no religious symbol on the deceased veteran's grave marker. "Subsequently, defendant Ocasio asked the Memorial Ladies to endeavor to respect particular family members religious preferences, and to provide only general condolences without religious reference unless the Memorial Ladies were aware of a family's religious preference and expressions of a specific religious nature would be appropriate," the document reads. The nonprofit Liberty Institute, which filed the lawsuit on behalf of the volunteer groups Veterans of Foreign Wars District 4, American Legion Post 586, and National Memorial Ladies, stands by all the allegations against the VA and Ocasio. "Everything we said is true," said Hiram Sasser, Liberty Institute's director of litigation. "My response is that we represent World War II and Vietnam veterans and veterans of the Persian Gulf and veterans of other wars, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and their integrity and honesty is above reproach," Sasser said. "They have sacrificed and served this country well, and they expect to be treated with dignity and respect by the VA." Read more: chron.com

To: Brumar89 who wrote (168103)	8/7/2011 7:20:08 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543919

I've really already told you the answer. I don't have enough time to go through every situation with you- apparently you have more free time than I do. If it's a governmental gathering, and not a private and personal service, no prayers. If it's a private funeral, than whatever prayer you want. It's really a pretty simple distinction. You don't like it, I'm sure, but I do. Will there be cases that step up to the line between private and public? Yes there will. The courts will decide those. Am I interested in arguing about this forever? No. Would you like to make me out as someone who wants to "squash" religion? Yes. Am I trying to squash religion? What I want is fairness and neutrality from the government- meaning no governmental agency or organ pushes religion. That looks like "unfairness" and "suppression" to you. Are we going to resolve this? No. Are other people on this thread probably bored to death by now by this? Yes. Could we argue until one of us drops dead about this? Yes. Are we going to? No.