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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (169152)	8/14/2011 5:15:05 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 544209

You call it "whining," eh? lol, I admit it, it annoys me when people like yourself blatantly misrepresent the facts and then sweetly claim otherwise. You are entitled to your opinions, bully for you, but not to just make up things and pretend that they are facts. And you do it all the time. And just blithely ignore it when you are called down. It isn't "tolerance" to tolerate such things and go along with them as if they are legitimate opinions, it is stupidity. At least if you are free to ignore the person who is doing it.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (169152)	8/14/2011 5:41:55 PM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 544209

>>You know, I don't think I've ever whined about other people expressing their opinions and lobbied for them to be silenced. I find that a really ugly and intolerant attitude. Ironic that people who call themselves liberals and tolerant are so often illiberal and intolerant. It bespeaks a discomfort in defending one's ideas imo.<< You misunderstand that reaction. It's not all debate that people on this thread want to eliminate. It's just the kind of repetitive bashing that is represented in the posts of several participants here that we tire of. Or at least, that's how I feel. I really can't speak for anyone else.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (169152)	8/14/2011 6:34:01 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Respond to of 544209

It seems ridiculous to me that we allow tyranny of the minority in the senate, but, we do.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (169152)	8/14/2011 9:25:27 PM
From: Sam	Respond to of 544209

I know. It seems ridiculous to me that Democrats can hold both houses of Congress and the WH and pose as powerless underlings. Here is the deal, Brumar-- first, the Republicans abused majority power in the Senate, e.g. when they reinterpreted Rule 4 in the Judiciary Committee to mean that a simple majority ruled instead of required at least one member of the minority to agree to nominations, as it had been interpreted since its origin in 1979 (guess "original intent" and stari decisis don't count for much for Republicans, whatever they may say under oath), and when they passed Bush's tax cuts under reconciliation (and then of course screamed bloody murder when the Democrats threatened to do the same thing a few years later, lol--and the Democrats backed down, incredibly and stupidly). Just to name two incidents. The Houses abuse of majority power was way too frequent and obvious to even list, but if you are actually interested in getting some actual history about it, go read The First Branch, by Republican Norm Ornstein and Democrat Thomas Mann. Of course, it is much more fun to make up facts, and much less time consuming too, so I am pretty sure that you won't bother to read it. After all, redstate.com or Fox News will give you all the info you actually need. So first, they abused majority power in both the Senate and the House in ways the Ornstein and Mann, both involved with Congress since the late 60s in a variety of capacities, had never seen before. Then, they abused minority power in the Senate, as the Democrats incredibly allowed them to hold up executive appointments and to filibuster bills by using technicalities and rules that, it's true, had been used before, but never used with such frequency or over such petty, partisan and sometimes incredible objections (e.g., Shelby using a hold until his district was awarded some pork he wanted; or a Nobel Prize winning economist being refused a hearing for the Fed because he was, well, a Democrat). So, we have abuse of majority power and abuse of minority power for the Republicans. And you wonder why Democrats couldn't get what they wanted done done. They weren't ruthless enough. I am quite sure that if Republicans gain control of Congress in 2012 that they won't make that mistake.