To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (626612 ) 9/2/2011 2:43:53 AM From: one_less 1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) | Respond to >>"To me, it's easy to identify the mainstream. Start with the geological center, which is Mecca in Saudi Arabia. " Mainstream: The principal or dominant course, tendency, or trend: the mainstream of American culture. (Dictionary. com) That, however, is all beside the point. The position of the hate Islam crowd here is that it is right and proper to attribute the behavior of this man who cut the throats of his daughters to the mainstream culture of Islam, and having done so justifies persecuting Muslims in general and spewing hatred of the religion of Islam accordingly. Great efforts to make such a case are underway, first getting involved in things like SI threads designed for that purpose and then dog packing in a fairly transparent fashion to promote that agenda without consideration for common decency or regard for principle in the process. Those are the facts and there is no dispute about it. It is entrenched in the character and actions of some of you to be properly labeled bigotry. You don't like the word because it is politically incorrect but it is accurate and there isn't a better way to label the actions of people taking the position that they "Truly believe" such things are justified. All of your demands have been met. The mainstream culture has repeatedly and officially condemned everything from terrorist bombings to honor killings. You yourself said you doubted you could locate a Muslim in person who would disagree and that it doesn't seem like the diverse population of Muslims in America (which represent every region of the world) supports such heinous acts. I have personally, numerous times over the past days, declared these things to be abhorrent and condemnable, only to see you and others repeatedly implying I would ever consider otherwise or give sanction to those who do. In the world of billions these events as heinous as they are in and of themselves, they represent anomalies to mainstream attitudes and conduct. They are not condoned officially or by the culture at large who endeavor to eliminate the problem. The position of you and yours has been quite upside down to those facts. This strand started with a comment stating something to the effect of, "suspected" as many as 100 murders could be attributed to honor killing. I challenged the statistic and its attribution by showing how in affluent successful regions of the world this kind of crime is rare. But you all didn't even attempt to prove the validity of your statistic or show how my position is wrong you all simply started attacking me personally. Not complaining, simply clarifying and confirming what we all know. Not much of an argument really. I could do your side much better. Watch ... Ok there were lots of murders, we know there were many more than 100 but we suspect at least 100 could be labeled honor killings probably more. We know these were men who were betrayed, shamed, frustrated, or angry at a woman for her conduct to the extent that they were feeling dishonored and couldn't stand for that, so they murdered the woman. It wasn't officially declared an honor killing but obviously it qualifies by that common sense cause and effect type of scenario so we can justifiably say we suspect it was honor killing with a high degree of confidence. I mean really it would be hard to provide a more realistic explanation right? Right. So I am convinced and I can't imagine a good argument against that explanation can you? There. But I also provided statistics from 2002 for American crimes not just suspected but documented, over 2million assaults, over 2 million murders. That was labeled jibberish. But their is a tie in to the discussion, I suspect a large percentage of women assaulted and murdered in that year alone had betrayed, frustrated and otherwise aggravated their attacker prior to being killed. I don't think we need to ask the convicted assailants if the women had behaved dishonorably or if the assailant felt dishonored. Nope the same justifiable suspicion can be applied and with the same degree of confidence. I don't think that says anything about the cultural umbrella 'America,' at all. We could say, 'well they are American and they get their values and attitudes from American tradition.' We would both agree, such a Hate America attitude is wrong. Do a large percentage of men in America condone such behavior? I have no way of knowing how many would but I can't help but notice the number of women's shelters, the high percentage of abused children cases, broken homes, and what not. Again I don't blame any innocent American because the problem has not been eliminated, nor do I blame America. To do so would be unjust. Further it would be simply bigoted for a foreigner who only reads about the most heinous case from a biased foreign report to persecute innocent Americans or cast judgment on America for the acts of some crazed lunatics. Don't you agree? "I might add that I'm also intolerant of those who deny the act is widespread among Muslims worldwide (though not necessarily in the Western world), who won't acknowledge that this is a Muslim problem that Muslims need to address, and who covers up said denials by playing the bigot card. " "By the way, I've never met any Muslim who supports honor killings, either. But then again, I never traveled to a Muslim-dominated country."
