To: Paul Senior who wrote (44529 ) 11/24/2012 3:13:42 PM From: E_K_S Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 78711 OT - Planing 2012 ROTH Conversion Question: Items to Consider to minimize Tax and conserve portfolio value. Hi Paul - I remember you did some IRA to Roth transfers for 2012 and was looking to do the same this year. I thought I would share a few things I researched and learned (for planing purposes) that the Schwab Retired Services shared with me. 1) Convert traditional IRA to Roth - From Dec 2012 Kiplinger LetterIf you think your tax rate is going to rise sometime in the future, converting to a Roth makes a lot of sense. Withdrawals from traditional IRAs are taxed at your ordinary income tax rate, while all withdrawals from Roths are tax-free and penalty-free as long as you're at least 59 ½ and the converted account has been open at least five years. You do have to pay taxes on any pre-tax contributions and earnings in your traditional IRA for the year you convert. That's why converting before New Year's Eve is smart: You'll pay taxes at current tax rates, which are unlikely to go any lower. If you're an upper-income taxpayer -- with modified adjusted gross income(AGI) of at least $200,000 if you're single or $250,000 if you're married filing jointly -- you have an even greater incentive to convert in 2012, because converting next year could trigger a new 3.8% surtax on unearned income. (The surtax was enacted to pay for some of the costs of the health-care reform law.) Withdrawals from an IRA aren't subject to the surtax, but they're counted as adjusted gross income and could lift your AGI above the threshold.There is a major caveat, though. We think a major tax reform package could be enacted as early as next year that would lower overall tax rates, while eliminating tax credits and deductions. If that happens, you'd be better off converting after December 31. Fortunately, when you convert to a Roth, you can change your mind, says Kathy Stewart, director of fiduciary research for fi360, a training organization for financial advisers. If it looks like tax reform is going to lower your tax rate, you have until October 15, 2013, to undo the conversion and turn your Roth back into a regular IRA. 2) Turn lemons into Roth conversion cash - Sales of depressed assets can create a "bank' of capital losses Many clients have significant amounts of unrealized losses from the turmoil in the financial markets.Selling those assets can provide a “bank” of net capital losses. Then the client can sell some of his or her appreciated capital assets, which can be sheltered from tax by the net losses and increase the amount of cash that can be used for a Roth conversion.Suppose, for example, that a financial adviser looks over Richard's financial statements and sees that he has $2 million of portfolio assets. Included are $200,000 worth of stocks and funds bought for $300,000.If Richard sells those stocks and funds, he will have a net capital loss of $100,000. Typically, some of the losses will be short-term and others long-term, but it makes no difference for this purpose.Let's also assume that Richard's adviser helps him select $150,000 worth of stocks and funds to sell at a profit of, say, $30,000. Thanks to his bank of $100,000 worth of net capital losses, Richard will owe no tax on his $30,000 of gains.Moreover, he now has $350,000 in sales proceeds: $200,000 from taking losses and $150,000 from taking gains. Richard can use that $350,000 to pay the Roth IRA conversion tax and keep his entire remaining portfolio in the Roth IRA. 3) From the Schwab Retirement Services group: a) Set up separate account No. for each transfer so you can keep track of the minimum 5 year holding period. b) Form 1099R issued at end of year reflecting total amount converted from IRA to Roth c) Form 5498R can be filed to "recharachterize" (ie undo) a full and/or partial IRA conversion to Roth. This form must be completed and filed up to the next Federal Tax year due date (ie before April 15 2014 for 2012 conversions). Filing this form allows one to reduce $ amount(s) converted (ie undo) if an adjustment is needed in the amount converted. =================================================================== Therefore, if the portfolio losses are managed correctly, one can book the losses, buy back positions (in 31 days) and/or reduce capital gains and/or reduce IRA to ROTH conversion tax and/or use proceeds to pay IRA to ROTH tax. FWIW, I also now have a piece of income producing real estate in the portfolio. In my first year w/ both long term capital improvements (that increase the depreciation basis) and short term "expense" projects, this investment could/should shelter and/or defer a small portion of the IRA to Roth conversion tax. I am not sure what you finally decided in making your decision in both (1) the timing and (2)) the amount(s) for your IRA to Roth conversion(s) but I am looking to do a partial conversion. My strategy is to do between 25% - 33% of the IRA account in 2012 and subsequent amounts in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Using Form 5498R you can adjustment conversion amounts to better fine tune the final amount subject to Federal tax. Finally, once the five year holding period is achieved, the income and assets can be withdrawn "tax free" and the ROTH account(s) can be distributed to one or more beneficiaries tax free too. You are pretty thorough in your analysis. Can you add anything that I might have missed? EKS