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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (9501)	11/19/1997 9:26:00 PM
From: hpeace	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

len, Abraham more than existed... I'll tell the the real story that most leave out. Over the years Abraham learn to give his heart to God... But, he doubted God at times but in the sacrifice of Issac story they leave out some important details. In Gen 15 God promises Abraham a child. He's about 75 then and childless. Abraham does try to help God(doubt) out by mating with his wive's hand maiden when after years the child hasn't come. But, in Gen 15 the child was promised and God also promised that that child would live and have so many decendants that the stars in heaven could not match them. God told him to name this child Isaac later. Gen 17. So, the child was suppose to live and have many decendents. When Abraham tried to help God out which is always a bad idea. abraham and sarah's hand maiden had Ishmael which is the reason for much war in the earth today bet. Ishmael's descendents and Issac's decendents. And Ismael was promised to be a man who was always against everyone in the world. A prophecy that has certainly come true. In Gen chapter 17 God says to name the child Isaac so, it wasn't Ishmael that God was refering to as the child that would have more decendets as the stars in heaven. But, Isaac finally came and eventually Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac. This isn't all that cruel since Abraham was faithful and a clue is in Gen 22:5 Abraham when he leaves with Isaac to sacrifice him tells his servants they are leaving and "we" will return. He knew that both Isaac and he had to return since he had learned that God does not lie and in Gen 15 he promised he would have Isaac and that Isaac would have many decendents. So, he reasoned that God would either have to stop him before the sacrifice or raise isaac from the dead if he did sacrifice him. Paul, relates this in the epistles. Did you figure that out... think about it. Now, God provided a ram to sacrifice at the last second and it was sacrificed. and this part is in the talsmud... the ram was raised from the dead and eventaully a horn from that ram made a sofar. That sofar was passed down and was the trumpet played generatons later when the isrealites were freed from Egypt. This sofar part isn't in scripture it's in Jewish histroy whuch is accurate but not the Inspired Word of God. So, when Abraham was willing to give up his only son Isaac it was what God needed to then give up His only Son Jesus and sacrifice Jesus to save all the world. Jesus's sacrifice allowed God to retake the crown of rulership that satan took from Adam over the earth and allowed God to now put the Holy Spirit in us and give us eternal life and fellowship with God. And, Jesus was raised from the dead like the ram. Any questions.... God Bless

To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (9501)	11/20/1997 3:34:00 PM
From: O'Hara	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

><>...Welcome Back Len, it sure has been a while...><> How have you been? So you want to know if Abraham really existed. Let me start by stating that everytime a child is circumsized the world gives recognition to the fact that not only did Abraham exist, but the covenant God made with him is still remembered....consciously or otherwise. Len you once compared yourself to Daniel,in that you were a human animal as he was. (I never really understood what you ment by that) You even stated that Jesus is no longer alive in the material world, (even though I begged to differ)which ment that you believe that at one time He was...The point is that you believe they existed. So how is it that you question the existance of Abraham. You believe in God Len, and you believe what He has said of Daniel....at least to the extent that Daniel existed and you also believe Jesus existed. So why is it now that you question what God has said of Abraham and his existance? The Covenant between God and Abraham Gen.17 was sealed with blood. Gen.17:10-14....Had there been no Abraham there would in my opinion be no circumcision...It was also in this chapter that God changed his name from Abram to Abraham. Yes Len, there really was an Abraham. Have to go talk to you later, and again welcome back Shalom...><> Neh 9:7 7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;