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Pastimes : JESUS and FINANCIAL FREEDOM -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: gregor who wrote (174)11/20/1997 4:15:00 PM
From: Cisco  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 1283
 
Greetings gregor,

You have just hit on one of the most dogging and haunting questions ever raised by the Christian faith. (i.e. What happens to all those who lived before the coming of Christ or to those who have never heard the Gospel?) I must say you do like to open cans of worms.<g>

Of course there is no totally satisfactory answer for the thinking Christian this side of heaven. However having said that, let me throw out a few thoughts on an issue. First I need to set the background.

I would suggest that God is a just and loving God. To those who would point to how the nature of God has seemed to change through out the Bible, I would suggest that it is just that: "seemed to change". I believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I believe that the Bible records throughout history how God's people viewed their God and how God continued to bring them along to a fuller and more complete understanding. I would suggest that God inspired the thoughts of the Biblical writers, allowing them to put down in their own words what God had revealed to them.

I would suggest that its not God's nature which has changed, but God's people's understanding of God's nature which has changed. When I first read the Old testament from a literal point of view as a teen, I found a God I could not respect or worship. I found a God who supported the beating of slaves as long as they didn't die. (Ex. 21:20) I found a God who ordered Parents to execute their children if they curse them. (Ex. 21:17) I found a God who ordered the destruction of nations and the plunder of their wealth. (Num 31:1-12) I found a God that condoned the killing of all the children except for the virgin girls who the soldiers were to save for their own use. (Num. 31:17-18) I could continue for hours, but I think you see the point I am making.

I also found a Bible that denied what we know to be the truth. For example in Joshua 10:12-14 we find an account were the Lord stopped the sun from circling the earth for a day so that Israel could continue to wage their war against the Amorites. Clearly the writer did not understand that it is the earth which journeys around the sun and if the earth did stop spinning in order to lengthen the day that the gravitational pull would destroy it.

Early in my Christian Journey I rejected the literal interperation of the Bible which generally is derived from a "verbal" view of inspiration and adopted what is known as the "dynamic" view of inspiration. Clifton J. Allen in describing the view of dynamic inspiration stated: "a dynamic view of inspiration is not dependent on a mystical, inexplicable, and unverifiable inerrancy in every word of Scripture or on the concept that inspiration can allow no error of fact or substance. Rather, it accepts the Bible in wholeness and unity as inspired: inerrant as the only completely authentic witness to God's self-revelation in Christ and his salvation through Christ; inerrant because its truth is the perfect instrument of the Spirit to bring men to faith and righteousness and hope; and inerrant because its teaching, interpreted by the life and work of Christ, is the infallible guide as to how the people of God ought to live and what they can surely believe under the leading of the Spirit of Christ."

Now to your question: Would you agree that somehow through the ages and through the dispensations and through the prophets and the law that God has kept the playing field level?

Gregor, I believe that God deals fairly with all mankind. I believe that God deals with each person at the level of their understanding. To whom much is given, much is required! Luke 13:47-48 says: "that servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." (NIV)

Doesn't the 11th Chapter Hebrews make the case that for those who were faithful to the knowledge they had, God was was proud to be "called their God"? (Heb. 11:16) The list reads like the list of who's who of the Old Testament starting with Abel. The writer goes on to say that "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect." (Heb. 11:39-40) Note that they are included at the "Final Arrival": "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteours men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

Those who believe they know the full truth and who wish to limit the free will of God may want to read again John 10:16. For some reason when Christians quote Jesus from John Chapter 10 they seem to always stop at the 15th verse. The 16th verse says "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." (NIV)

Who are these other sheep? Are they only the Gentiles? Could they be the Baptists or the Pentecostals? Could they be the Native American Indian who worshiped their God of creation long before the Gospel reached these shores? Could it even possibly be the followers of other world religions? I don't know!

What I do know is that God has given me only one Gospel to take forth as a Christian and it is the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

To complicate the answer to your question further take a look at 1 Peter 3:18-20 were the writer says: "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

There are those who hold the view that the phrase "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built" was an illustration of the type of spirits Jesus preached to. They would go on to say that Christ "in the spirit" went to Hades between his death and resurrection in order to "offer salvation to sinners who had died without hearing the gospel and getting a chance to repent."(The interpreter's Bible)

Could you ask an easier question next time?<g>

Cisco



To: gregor who wrote (174)11/21/1997
From: Cisco  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1283
 
CONVERSION ON THE ROAD TO WALL STREET

I kid you not, this is the title of the featured article in the December/January 1998 Special Double Issue of Worth! (by Walter Russell Mead)

If you are a Christian Investor pick up a copy and read it. Here are a few brief excerpts from the 10 page story:

®The miraculous markets of the past 20 years are facing an unholy problem: Many conservative Christians are no longer willing to march with the economic conservatives. Will your investments thrive if the Republican coalition doesn't?¯

®Investors should take note: If other factors don't pop the bubble first, the new class politics of the Christian right could spell the end of the long bull market.¯

®If the conservative Christians swept Reagan into Washington, business conservatives were the ones who shaped his policy once he got there.¯

®Yet while business conservatives pushed piece after piece of their program through the system, social conservatives -- Christian and otherwise -- derived relatively few victories from their new political strength¯

®The dynamic has now changed. Social conservatives are beginning to develop an economic agenda of their own, one that bears little resemblance to the libertarian paradise imagined by the Cato Institute.¯

®Promise Keepers is one of the most significant players in a recent new wave of Christian organizations that are remaking American politics.¯

®Conservative Christians are reaching out to African-Americans to build a majority coalition.¯

®Whether the issue is labor rights, free trade with China, or even defense spending, an increasing number of conservative Christians who study their Bibles will break with mainstream economic conservative thought¯

®In the longer run, it is potentially very good news for the United States.¯

®But in the short term -- the time frame in which most of us plan our retirements and save for our children's educations -- the impact of the new populism on financial markets could be much less benign.¯

®The Bible says many things, but nowhere does it teach that the main duty of government is to support stock prices with investor-friendly policies. Nowhere does it command that companies must have the legal right to pursue profits when their actions, such as closing down a factory or laying off workers, disrupt the lives and economic security of American families. And Jesus, as Eugene Rivers, Jim Wallis, and Gary Bauer all reminded me, didn't encourage His followers to get rich. In fact, His advice was just the opposite: "Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor ---then come, follow me"(Luke 18:22).¯

®If pro-family replaces pro-business as the touchstone of American politics, investors may or may not follow Jesus' injunction to distribute money to the poor, but the first part of the advice -- "Sell all that you own" -- may turn out to be a very good idea for the owners of stocks and bonds.¯

What do you guys and gals think of this?

Will Christians really be the reason for the end of the 20 year Bull Market?

Gregor, are you sure God didn't send you a telegram telling you to start this thread when you did? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't pick up a few more lurkers after people read this article.

Cisco