To: skinowski who wrote (90828 ) 5/31/2012 1:28:04 PM From: Maurice Winn 2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 217786 The fundamental difference between "slave" and "customer" is that in one, there is compulsion with force applied with threat of death if sufficient resistance is offered. In the other, there is no force applied and a purchase is made by free will. <What makes you think that paying taxes means being a "tax slave"? By this logic, every time I buy gasoline, I become an oil industry slave. > One party offers a service, the other is free to buy it or not as they choose. People do NOT choose whether to pay taxes or not, whether you call it "buying government services" or not. Surely you can see the difference? No? Tradable Citizenship doesn't result in people being irrational any more than does the normal "vote yourself money" democratic processes of the present. In fact, it makes people more rational because they have better information and therefore more ability to make rational choices. Which is not to say that all people will make rational choices which of course they will not. All choices are approximate. Of course some people will sell their birthright and end up broke in Zimbabwe or somewhere daft. Some people try to climb Mount Everest and many die in the attempt. Some drink booze then go driving fast at night. Swarms die of AIDS. Most people die from what they voluntarily choose to eat, drink or smoke. Making everybody wards of the state is not the answer. I don't believe that you really think that we should all be wards of states simply because people are generally irrational and unable to make perfect choices. The answer is "Bad choices mate. Good luck in Zimbabwe, you'll need it." <Once the money is gone, they'll come back home and move in with their parents, or their families. Other citizens will be forced to act to protect the value of their citizenships, and will try to remove those reckless individuals. Before you know, you'll need a far more powerful police and immigration service that what we have today. > That's the same as now. Any number of people from barbarian states are trying to bust into civilisation to bludge off welfare and other advantages of rich countries. It's only with strong borders that the locals are protected against the onslaught. Your social engineering concept of citizens as state chattels is far more prone to bad ideas by citizens than my anti social engineering ideology of freedom via Tradable Citizenship. <Like any big social engineering concept, your idea has many weak spots, and none is more important than the expectation that owners of a Tradeable Citizenship will behave... rationally. People are not very rational, and when they are - they don't do it very consistently. > Your idea has been tried around the world, and found to fail everywhere. How long before you give it away as a failed social engineering experiment and set people free? Mqurice