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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (491255)	6/17/2012 10:38:15 AM
From: MrLucky	2 Recommendations Respond to of 793800

But I do question all those new civilians, DOD leaders, and our current senior military leadership who apparently do not know how to win. Or if they do, can't find the moral imperative to state what we need to do.> They know how to be PC -(Ft. Hood), (LGBT). They know how to direct and limit combat missions. They know how to create restrictive ROE. Shades of LBJ and his personal analysis of mission specific work in Vietnam.

To: unclewest who wrote (491255)	6/17/2012 10:46:18 AM
From: Jorj X Mckie	6 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793800

hmmmm, I was pondering the "why don't we win wars" question the other day. I think the draft is a correlation, not a causation. I think it is more about the will to win than the means to win. We are far more concerned with our public image in the world theater than we are with winning wars. We get into wars where there is a legitimate threat and then focus on freeing the people so they can be a democracy. When I backpacked around europe in 1984 doing the youth hostel/eurail thing, I remember how the people in Luxembourg loved Americans because we had liberated them from the Germans. When a told an older barmaid that my uncle was buried in the American military city there, she wouldn't accept my money. I think that is what Americans are looking for now. We want to win wars while still having the people we conquer love us. I think that we are going into these wars with the attitude that the bad guys in the government and military are hated occupying forces, like the Germans were, when in fact they are made up of the brothers, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters of "the people". And when you kill somebody's family member, they aren't going to love you. When we accept that, maybe we can start winning wars again. Our rules of engagement reflect our attitude of not wanting to be perceived as the "bad guy". When a soldier has to ask permission to fire a shot when being attacked, is it really any wonder why we have problems winning wars?

To: unclewest who wrote (491255)	6/17/2012 12:52:57 PM
From: ManyMoose	Respond to of 793800

No! It is now fair to ask, are the all-volunteer US Armed Forces a concept failure? Yes! DOD leaders, and our current senior military leadership who apparently do not know how to win.

To: unclewest who wrote (491255)	6/17/2012 12:57:27 PM
From: DMaA	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793800

It is now fair to ask, are the all-volunteer US Armed Forces a concept failure? Fair our not it is a question you've been asking as long as I've read you. The problem isn't the people who carry out the orders, it's the leaders, civilian and military. And you're not going be drafting those guys.

To: unclewest who wrote (491255)	6/17/2012 1:38:40 PM
From: Farmboy	2 Recommendations Respond to of 793800

I have no issues with what you said, Unclewest. When I said: If we didn't go in to score a KO in the first round .... we better stay home. that is what I meant. Our top brass, and civilian 'leaders' do not seem to want to win any more ... They appear to think we can triumph by going in to 'spar' a few rounds. Won't work ... never has, and never will. However, we did do a fairly good job in the beginning of Desert Storm ... We just let up too soon. We errored when control of the strategy went from the generals on the ground, to the pentagon. Schwartzkopf was fighting a war. The top brass was playing politics.