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To: ian who wrote (1277)	11/30/1997 4:40:00 PM
From: steve goldman	Respond to of 12617

Someone had asked on the Trading Desk Thread about shorting gap up openings and how to get around down ticks, etc....food for thought..... Using hindsight, over the past few weeks, shorting gap up openings has been succesfful as the market and stocks seem to open at their day's highs and then retreat before recovering and moving higher, if at all. First, as a trader, this is why you never buy right at the open, but rather doyou selling, if the market is up, and visa versay if it is down, although sometimes the market takes about 20 , 30 minutes to establish its opening stance, as listed stocks take time to get open. One way to capture theupside premium would be to flat out try to short the stock finding an uptick and having borrowed the shares. Not easy in a stock that is fading fast from a gap up opening. Nonetheless, it usually rocks to and from and so you might be able to sell inbetween on selectnet, an ecn or even at the offer, etc, in a deteriorating market. One strategy I utilize is to establish a long and short position in the stock. You decide that a stock might be a good short candidate over the next few days/weeks. Prior to the short opportunity, you buy it long in your type 2, margin a/c, and then sell it short when the volatility is down. You are now long xx shares in your type 2 account and short in your type 3, short account. You are now net flat, zero, to the market. It doesnot matter what the stock does because your long position offsets exactly your short position. Margin deposit on the position in only like 5%, I believe, so its doesnt hurt you too badly to maintain this position. Now lets say the futures are up 7 points, market is poised for its usual "open and then pull back" days. You now can simply go ahead and sell the long position without an uptick since the two positions you have, long and short are distinct. You can sell the long psotion without an uptick, just smack the opening bid once you are sure it has opened at a big enough gap or do nothing. If you end up doing nothing and want to close the short/long position, simply tell the margin department to "flatten the long position in xyze against my short position" in my account. This strategy does not helpyou on "news" items, story stocks, or items that were not anticipated. Nonetheless, you can establish these positions with earnings known to be coming. A few great ones would have been AMAT, etc. Good luck and becareful. I have not done a lot of shorting in the past year since I think it is similar to pissing against the wind. The same type of correction happened two july's ago and those who didnt cover are out about 1800 points on the dow and a couple hundred on the nasdaq. regards, steve@yamner.com

To: ian who wrote (1277)	11/30/1997 5:04:00 PM
From: 1stSunRay	Respond to of 12617

Ian, for trading on news I'm using: Subject 17320 Good Luck, 1stSunRay PS: About Jeff Cooper's Hit List, see my old reviews: Message 2616303 Message 2618665 Simply try his fax/email service or read ALL this great thread ...

To: ian who wrote (1277)	11/30/1997 6:55:00 PM
From: robnhood	Respond to of 12617

Ian,,my 2 cents worth,,,I am responsible for about 15 stocks,,,a few sort of active and some only occasionally,,,I find that if I trade "off post" I may clip it once or twice,,but it gets me back eventually , with interest,,,I'm not sure 100% about this, but if you have a certain set of stocks which you never take your eyes off of, you get to know them fairly well...to many I think become confusing , since you also have to watch indices and other market barometers and sentiment... russell

To: ian who wrote (1277)	11/30/1997 8:39:00 PM
From: Wayners	Respond to of 12617

First of all I included about 800 stocks in Windows on Wall Street that have options available on them by going through the Investor's Business Daily. I then run a screen each night to put together a list of the 800 that are currently trading 750,000 shares at least once in the last 5 days. In addition the screen narrows the list down to only those that have AVERAGED a 3% move every day over the last 50 days. I end up with a list of between 80 and 100 each day that are pretty good. Very liquid and VERY volatile. They are not for the faint of heart. I then run a screen on those to see which ones are in an uptrend, downtrend, and no trend. I primarily use a 12 DMA for trend identification. I never trade against the trend (anymore). I look for peaks and dips within trends to identify potential trading opportunities. If the trend is flat I primarily use bollinger bands on price, i.e. sell at the upper band and buy at the lower band. I avoid flat trends where the bands are real narrow or pinched due to the high risk. (NOTE: If anybody knows how to predict breakout direction in these instances, please e-mail me ASAP). For trends, I buy on dips as indicated by stochastics and I short on price peaks on downtrends also using stochastics. I also like using bollinger bands on stochastics in lieu of normal trigger lines. The width or narrowness on the bands keeps me in tune with trend all on one chart. I also use a 3 day/12 day moving average crossover system and pay great attention to volume. I also use real time intraday charts through quote.com to base intraday trade decisions on. There I'm basically looking at the price in relationship to the volume, looking for divergences. I also look for basic support and resistance levels and chart patterns, i.e. intraday pennants, wedges, head and shoulders etc.