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To: Greg or e who wrote (1072)	12/15/2012 10:12:28 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2133

"This definition doesn't limit Pederasty to anal sex with Boys but it is certainly a major aspect of it." It probably simply reflects your personal experience. The truth is that it is a lay definition which addresses one of the things done by a pederast while missing the academic and scholarly compass of pederasty which may include anal sex in the relationship but (in ancient Greece)...usually did not. The love of adolescents (as lived in Greece) was expressed in many ways. In Sparta, for instance, no carnality was permitted on threat of exile or death. And remember that Sparta was huge and that every male in Sparta was a pederast both as erastes and as erômenos. I put together an overview for you so that you would understand it a little better. Message 28599183 Now consider the moral aspects. *"1: Men having homosexual relationships with children is immoral"* Fact. Usually, there is an age of consent which is used to legally regulate the morality of the relationship of pederasty. This is true everywhere. If the pederasty is legal and consensual then it is moral. All cultures have regulations regarding illicit sexual conduct. Same-sex love (just as heterosexual love) is legal and moral in most of the world, provided it occurs within the ambit of the age of consent. The Greeks allowed the consent to flow through the guardianship of the parent. Greek pederasty involved adolescents between 20 or 13 to about 20 or so. "2 You claim that all Greek Men were involved in homosexual relationships with children." Fact. I claimed that all (or mostly all) Greek men were involved in pederasty both as adolescents in the role of eromenos and as mature men in the role of erastes. Homosexuality was not an idea in Greek culture. It is recorded and undisputed that most of the relationships were formed and bonded within the compass of consent and moral probity. *"3: Therefore all of Greece (the men anyway) were immoral."* Fact. Most males in Greece kept the legal code as well as the moral codes and lived to honour the mores of their culture and their peers. Therefore, most Greeks were not immoral. They were a society of laws and regulations (thanks to great men such as Solon). Therefore, 1). Pederasty is immoral where the moral code or legal code of the society is contravened. 2). Pederasty was regulated in Greek culture through consent flowing through the guardianship of the child (usually the father). 3). Therefore, Greece was not immoral. Indeed, morality and how to live good as individuals and as communities was front and center in their philosophy, politics, literature, and education. All of our western culture draws from this incredible millennia of intellectual and moral focus on what is good and how should man live to do good and to be good. Obviously, the great thinkers and moral leaders were pederasts because that was considered one of the highest values for transitioning adolescents into mature men fit for military, parenting, and other skills. Having said that, I do agree (obviously) that there were immoral citizens in Greece as there are everywhere.