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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GPS Info who wrote (42040)	9/22/2013 2:42:46 PM
From: Solon	1 Recommendation Recommended By average joe Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

"I believe that the idea of individual selfishness can be catastrophic to a small tribe, however it can survive for that individual living in our current civilization because there is no (large-scale) threat to society's ability to be self-sustaining. As more and more individuals decide to become more selfish, the outcome seems to be a lower fertility rate for that society." It is always difficult for me to address certain issues--where I completely understand the usage of a word in common discourse--yet understand it in a dissimilar manner in my own mind. In this case, I see "selfishness", or acting in ones self interest, to be perhaps the most "unselfish" behaviour humans can exhibit. For instance, I understand that every valuable addition to my original set of 1 (that would be me)...enlarges my life and increases my survival--and the survival of my group. So when I create a family and help it to survive I am being as selfish as a human being can be. I am promoting my self interest. Of course if a person REALLY wanted to be alone and forego all the advantages of cooperation and sharing...then being alone (for her or him) would be a profoundly selfish act...even if misguided. "I will posit that those values which improve the long-term survival of the group can be considered good values, and those which degrade the survival of the group as bad values." OK. But you are speaking from the observer tense. A group is a conceptual entity. It has no actual existence. There is no blood, no bone, no heart, and no mind. It does sound as though you have some background perhaps in anthropology and that is a wonderful science. You spoke of instincts. I am sure we still have them. But I think our ability to reason (accurately) amounts to improving on those instincts. Lemmings live alone except when they mate. From the standpoint of Evolution, this probably has group survival value as predators can only kill them one at a time. But humans are different. Indeed, our young are helpless for years. Another point about humans is the tribal instinct and reality that evolved in us. You have seen westerns where someone survived when the Indians incorporated a youngster into the tribe. The lesson is clear. If you are an individual you are with us or against us. The individual is outmatched! Yet she may yet have some value to a "selfish" tribe! However, groups have learned to live and let live, as it were. They are able to do a lot of damage to each other. The stakes are high. In the biblical tales, the loser was invariably exterminated to the last sperm and egg. Reason was dull. Now we know the value of other tribes to our survival. Now, if one considers rational selfishness to (usually) mean living in a group and helping to create group values which favor the survival (and happiness) of the group (and thus the individual). then have we taken the wrinkles out of the cloth?

To: GPS Info who wrote (42040)	9/22/2013 3:30:01 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 69300

I responded to this, but another thought has occurred. I remember visiting a Mayan cenote where young girls had their hearts cut out and thrown in as an act of worship to secure the favor of their god. Of course, it was nonsense. They also played a game where the winners were beheaded to honor the gods. Again nonsense. So groups can be selfish in many ways--including the VERY VERY IRRATIONAL. Probably, the practice of putting pot smokers in jail is an example of IRRATIONAL GROUP SELFISHNESS.