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Politics : Manmade Global Warming, A hoax? A Scam? or a Doomsday Cult? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (3730)	2/9/2014 10:34:02 PM
From: Maurice Winn	1 Recommendation Recommended By Stephen O Respond to of 4326

In the good old days, there was animist superstition, Buddhist, Christian, Islamic, Shinto, Hindu and any number of other like-minded beliefs which helped people form identity and belongingness which is essential to humans who are social animals based on millions of years of primate alpha male territorial tribal genocidal dominance hierarchy hunter-gatherers. While we aren't chimps, our limbic, amygdala, brain stem, and other basic brain components are not far removed from them. We have overlaid a ton of neurons in the thinking and memory departments, with language and whatnot all turbo-charging our brains. <I am far more interested in helping people to understand that we are in a religious war and that the tactics we are using will never work. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to fight against religious fanatics. > It's not really a religious war so much as a tribal conflict. With the loss of Christian and other identity beliefs which give post-mortal meaning to life, people are a bit adrift, looking for a life-raft to cling to. Gaia, environmental, socialist beliefs tie in with "science" into a nice package ready for belonging and consumption. There are goodies and baddies [Big Oil, Koch, you, me and other heathens, heretics, apostates who want to destroy the planet and life on Earth - presumably including ourselves]. There are all the trappings of tribalism with dogma, liturgical edicts, papal infallibility, excommunication, inquisition, burning at the stake, indulgences for sale and mystical incantations. It is great for a sense of belonging, identity, purpose, beyond the grave meaning and cash flow and girls for those positioned correctly as alpha males. What's needed is not logic, facts, reason so much as a sense of identity which is even more beneficial to prospective adherents. A brand new belief and identity system fit for the 21st century is needed. Narrow nationalism has had its day. A good place to start would be Tradable Citizenship to free people and their property from the yoke of tribalism. Mqurice

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (3730)	2/10/2014 1:51:57 AM
From: sense	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4326

I view that somewhat differently... but, then, I've been engaged in addressing this issue directly since... well, since before Silicon Investor existed, anyway. My view is... the argument has already been won. I see you acknowledging that in your post, too, only wondering why winning the argument seems not to matter. The science IS settled... in the sense that sanity is being restored well enough to enable reason, showing that the fraud has failed. The scientific argument has long since been won... by showing the "science" was fraud. Obviously, that's not an end point... but, it is also true that they have already failed in implementing the wide range of changes in politics that they were MOST wanting and fully intending to be the result of succeeding in advocating the fraud they were flogging. You don't need to look too far for evidence of that: liveleak.com Trend data ? uprisingradio.org They're going to be held accountable... or, some will... where lines were clearly crossed... even if the government fails in its duty to recognize gross injustice, and require that justice is done... Now, what's left... is watching what happens to "their cause" as the REST of the truth, in all its aspects, becomes increasingly apparent to MORE people, over time. Advocacy of Global Warming theory, today, is the political equivalent of supposed "liberals" supporting slavery, as Democrats did well beyond the point where Republicans had succeeded in freeing the slaves ? It WAS politically popular for Democrats to support slavery. So, they did. And then... that changed ? You shouldn't ever expect to see the most insane zealots back down... because of a silly thing like having been proven wrong... or wrong, and morally repugnant ? You should instead enjoy watching them struggle with their immorality and their inability to understand why others think they are insane... even as being in denial means they don't get it. They've failed. They'll still stick to their story... even though it is proven a fraud... in spite of the obvious cost of doing that... until they've lost because of it. So, I don't think it overly useful to focus too much... only on their expected stupidity in continually refusing to recognize that we're not buying that brand of bullshit, now, and we're not GOING to be buying it, again... that fewer and fewer people are going to be buffaloed into accepting it... when they've blown their trust... have been exposed as charlatans... etc. That change... now requires them to say that proof of failure in their predictions... proves the validity of their claims about "the science" ? They're toast. Because they ARE frauds... Let them be frauds... relish that they are... and enjoy pointing it out... but don't expect them to quit. You still need to persist in holding their feet to the fire of truth... but, you shouldn't expect them to repent... even while their inability to read the changes in the tea leaves... dooms them to irrelevance, or worse. There are other aspects that you need to recognize... One, is the industrial aspect of how money is used... as the flow of it is captured and directed by politicians, to use the taxpayers FORCED contributions to fund political opinions they abhor... in one disguise or another. That should NEVER happen... Truth doesn't matter, though... when whores willingly agree to be paid to tell flagrant lies ? It is a much larger fraud... that spawns the smaller frauds like the "global warming" scam, which are generated in order to be used as political tools... because a FACTION WITHIN the government is enabled in re-allocating public money to manipulate public opinion for factional political purposes... The Global Warming scam... thus isn't different than the Acorn scam... ? And, not different than a hundred others just like that... that show a bloated government co-opting the will of the people... by spending their money in concert with "charities" that operate against the public interest... in the name of "public interest advocacy"... "Charities"... have become potent political weapons... spending tax money... which is why you see the politics aligning just now in the ways it is... as events prove we have an Acorn derived President who has been caught using the FBI and the IRS to harass and intimidate political opponents... to prevent anyone other than "approved, liberal" charities from developing any close to equal ability to tap in to the $ driving GOVERNMENT FUNDED POLITICAL OPERATIONS... That's why my post the other day... about misfeasance... and whores ? That's what that's about... is government being revealed in the act of using tax dollars to coerce opinion... even by threatening scientists to require they participate in fraud... to sustain their funding. They've converted "academia"... into a cesspool of cowardice, intolerance, irrationality... and political patronage... That needs to be fixed... even if countering the obvious and pernicious political bias in academia requires force being applied... in the form of directed $ to force integration... to require and ensure that the academic community reflects the values of the population who pay them... requiring that it LOOKS like the population, politically... not just in racial composition ? The intolerance liberals have for diversity of opinion... is UGLY... and it makes them ugly. That ugliness simply needs to be exposed, first, and then rooted out... where it has been allowed to settle and fester.

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (3730)	2/10/2014 12:04:10 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4326

I also feel all your frustration. I am an engineer. I try to understand all the science and physics from the photons to gravity pulses. I try to visualize it all. I try to be able to explain it as well any anyone and make the obvious conclusions based upon the quantification of the facts and observations. In this way I may be able to educate a few who never thought about it. Joanne Nova, exceptional lay person at laying out the picture. Roy Spencer also is great and not so depending upon how deep you want to understand. Nicola Scafetta, has done masterful presentations but he is painful presenter to listen too. His stuff is fantastic science, but his speaking ability is difficult. These two presentation are available. I recommend one follows with the PDF versions of the charts. The Sun, the Moon, and the Planets: The Astronomical Origins of Climate Change on Earth. PDF At the John Locke Foundation, 18 November 2013. Does the Sun work as a nuclear fusion amplifier of planetary tidal forcing? At the Space Climate Symposium-5 in Oulu, Finland. June 15-19, 2013. Now to me the best, but this is text you have to mull long hours to fully understand is this paper by Gerhard Gerlich and Ralf D. Tscheuschner Institut fur Mathematische Physik Technische Universitat Carolo-Wilhelmina Mendelssohnstra Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physicshttp://arxiv.org/abs/0707.1161

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (3730)	2/10/2014 3:24:26 PM
From: sense	1 Recommendation Recommended By Hawkmoon Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4326

I should point out specifically... The reason you keep seeing them harping on the idea "the science is settled"... is BECAUSE it isn't ? They know it isn't "settled" and don't believe it is... but, they know that is their weakest point ? Saying the science is settled isn't true, it's just a TACTIC... Obvious counters to that tactic... that DO happen to be true ? "The science HAS been settled... because it has been proven as fraud."

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (3730)	2/10/2014 8:00:55 PM
From: sense	1 Recommendation Recommended By Maurice Winn Respond to of 4326

I should also point out the relative value of having won the argument ? While they continue the tactic of lying... and bear all the risk of being proven as the obvious liars they are... note that it still isn't the true believers they, or you, care about convincing ? Look at the link I included here: Message 29380514 It's a different subject... but, the same tactical issues in debate... do occur in other venue. Note, Obama's approach to the war on terror includes ZERO effort to engage in or win any moral or religious debate... and, he's clearly not capable of presenting any argument that could succeed ? By this time, of course, he's fully discredited himself even among those who were his core cadres of political supporters (again, discounting any and all the brain dead true believers)? Without any ability to engage in, much less claim victory in, a moral debate... ? How can he win others hearts and minds... when he's losing ours ? Instead, the Obama war effort ignores what matters, and focuses ONLY on killing those few among the true believers on the other side of the debate, that he won't engage and cannot win, who take action... while still doing everything it is possible to do, to avoid being engaged in any debate ? In Awlaki's case, it appears they killed him, first because he was an American citizen, and then because he WAS engaging in and convincingly winning the debates he engaged... among the cadres of those who weren't true believers, but might convert to supporting the true believers ? Is that approach effective ? CAN it be effective ? Will anyone recognize you as "winning the debate"... because you kill the guy who is winning the debate... while violating everything you PRETEND to represent in the process, thus proving yourself a lying pretender ? Is there ANY potential for that approach to succeed, ever... if you won't FIRST engage in and prove able to win the debate... that they refuse to have ? I think the answer is no. America is wasting time, $, and lives while failing to succeed in the war on terror... ONLY because the commander in chief is an idiot. He is an idiot... who is egotistical and deluded enough to believe that the tactical capability of the U.S. military that has been enabled by others... means that it “turns out I’m really good at killing people.” It means he thinks that weapons developed by others, that enable him to hit targets on a shooting range... make him into a military genius... rather than a foolish pedant... ? And, its also true, in that instance, that even when you are silent, your choices do make an argument even if your words do not. Obama's statements... made apparent through his actions... are ones that tacitly engage the debate... by surrendering every element of the moral high ground that America and American leaders should occupy... Obama's proof to our opponents... that there is an obvious benefit in Constitutionally limited government ? Obama's proof to our opponents... that there is a reason to believe ""rule of law" or a Constitution matters ? Obama's proof to our opponents... that there is a superior benefit in our morality, that proves we value life and liberty whereas they do not ? The most morally bankrupt leader in American history... believes he's "really good at killing people" ? I don't think he's winning that argument, either... Instead, I expect it's more likely that he'll be tried and convicted of war crimes, at some point... Unfortunately, that wouldn't be a first... for the Nobel Committee ?