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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: bruiser98 who wrote (104543)2/22/2014 1:43:17 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu1 Recommendation

Recommended By
average joe

  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 217886
 
Classic Russian propaganda, with gross historical inaccuracies.
The one truth I know territory stolen or conquered by Russia under various treaties are Romanian territories for millennia,other parts are Polish territories Crimea is Tatar not Russian

the writer is an alarmist scum serving the Totalitarian russian interests.

Not even East Ukraine ethnic Russians want Russian affiliation or interference all they want is get rid of the present kleptomania regime and some affiliation with the EU

I do speak to people of both sides, there are differences of opinion about full or partial affiliation with the EU but both side do not want russian interference and want the Russians out of Crimea more specifically their naval base there in Sevastopol

true the western part outright dislike the Russians as are the Poles and the Baltic republics review of the region history will clarify why

Current russian regime has its roots not with the ethnic slavic population, a quiet majority of Russians but a an offshot of Varangians, from which the Rurik dynasty emerged

Aside today Russia has well over 120 various ethnic groups within its teritory



To: bruiser98 who wrote (104543)2/23/2014 3:20:51 PM
From: Malyshek6 Recommendations

Recommended By
bruiser98
Haim R. Branisteanu
Joseph Silent
KyrosL
pikerman

and 1 more member

  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 217886
 
For a more informed commentary on Ukraine than Paul Craig Roberts's, you might look at these two pieces, one a recent article by, and the other an interview (with transcript) of Professor Steven Cohen, a longtime Russia specialist (unlike Roberts). Roberts is coming from a point of view that might be described in many ways as 'ultra-right,' and there are some similarities between Roberts's comments you posted and some recent comments by ultra-right wing columnist Patrick Buchanan (with Buchanan basically taking up for Yanukovich's Ukraine and Russia, and saying that in the "culture wars," Putin is on the "right side," and explaining this in part by reference to the Putin administration's hostility toward gay rights, favorable treatment of the Christian Church (with Orthodoxy having become practically a state religion in some respects in Russia) [interestingly, Buchanan, a fanatical Catholic, glosses over the fact that the Orthodox Church has traditionally been very hostile to the Catholic Church], and some other things that Buchanan interprets as properly "conservative." But this is coming from a guy who admired the Franco regime in Spain.

Roberts is a bit of a wing-nut, and not a Russia specialist. He says "Ukrainians will not escape corruption by joining the EU. Indeed, Ukrainians will suffer worse corruption." Sure, there is some corruption in EU countries, but anyone who has done business in both Western Europe and Russia (and most other parts of the former Soviet Union) knows that there's a big difference in the level of corruption, and it ain't worse in the EU.
Cohen writes for The Nation and would be considered left-of-center by many people, and would be perceived (perhaps unfairly) as being a bit of an apologist for the Soviet system (he has stressed what a mess Russia in the 90s became and how catastrophic that period was for Soviet citizens who had enjoyed stability and in many cases more prosperity under the Soviet system than they did in the 90s under Yeltsin).
Here are the Cohen links:
democracynow.org

thenation.com
(Appears in the March 3 issue of The Nation, was written February 11).

If you watch the part of the video where Cohen is interviewed, he comes across as very informed, not a ranter or raver, but rather is warning that we've seen with the Arab Spring countries what happens when a street-led movement gets taken over by the extremists, and that that is happening in Ukraine (the interview was at least a few days ago).
Cohen ends up reaching some of the same conclusions as both Roberts and Buchanan. They all believe that the mainstream media in the U.S. hasn't given the Ukraine story fair treatment, and that the U.S. and the EU are being very hypocritical.
People who think that regimes become total puppets of their patron countries are overestimating how many different aspects of governance there are in countries the size of Ukraine or Afghanistan. There might have been a puppet regime in a place the size of Granada, but look at how obstreperous Karzai is for the U.S. to deal with in Afghanistan, notwithstanding the countless billions of dollars in aid, the massive war effort and American lives lost in trying to bolster his government. If it were that easy to create a 'puppet' government, his should be one, and it isn't.
The bureaucrats in the EU and U.S., and the fervent ideologues and cheerleaders for intervention and nation-building efforts--like John McCain--may get some moral satisfaction from denouncing Yanukovich for cosying up to Putin's authoritarian and in many ways repugnant regime, but the fact is that the process of making Ukraine well-run, prosperous, and even relatively non-corrupt, will take decades if not generations (as it is taking that much time in Russia--more prosperous now than before, but only very, very patchily well-run, and very, very corrupt, and little tolerance for dissent of any kind). If it really were just a matter of Ukrainians saying, "We'd rather be more like Poland than Russia, and that's what this whole Ukraine conflict is about," it would be one thing, but they can't just wish their basket-case economy and traditions of corruption and internal disunity away by ousting Yanukovich.
And does the E.U., with its 'unshakable' economies like Greece, Portugal, and soon France, have the resources to support Ukraine for all the years it will take, which are going to entail bitter pills of reforms regardless of whether the full-fledged IMF free-trade model is followed, or even a more lenient version of it.
These issues are ungodly complicated, and I see through it when formulaic phrases are passed off as wisdom and morality, whether uttered by Obama, McCain, Merkel, Roberts, or whomever.



To: bruiser98 who wrote (104543)2/24/2014 9:44:06 PM
From: TobagoJack  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 217886
 
am not at all sure about the veracity of the claims below

presumably anyone w/ dire imperative should check out

if false, no big deal

if true, ... a hmmmnnnn moment follows

There are No Neo-Nazis in Ukraine. And the Obama Administration does not support Fascists
By Prof Michel Chossudovsky

Global Research, February 24, 2014

Url of this article:
r20.rs6.net

Svoboda is a Neo-Nazi Party, Ukraine’s fourth biggest party holding 36 seats out of 450 in parliament.

They’re also part of the Alliance of European National Movements along with the BNP and Jobbik.

Svoboda is supported directly by Washington.

This is Svoboda, the Neo-Nazi group that is doing the fighting in Ukraine.

Update February 24. The BBC headlines read: “We are putting our hopes in a new generation of politicians” amidst unconfirmed reports that an arrest warrant has been issued for the democratically elected president.

Speaker of the Parliament Oleksandr Turchynov who allegedly issued the arrest warrant directed against President Viktor Yanukovych stated “We must move towards a national government by Tuesday”. That government, were it to be formed, would be integrated by Svoboda.

Scroll down to meet the “new generation of politicians” supported and financed by the Obama administration.





Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnybok doing their party salute when re-elected their leader.

r20.rs6.net

r20.rs6.net


John McCain with leader of the Neo-Nazi Svoboda Party (right)





John McCain with leader of the Neo-Nazi Svoboda Party (right) Business Insider, Business Trip to Kiev



“The far-right in Ukraine are acting as the vanguard of a protest movement that is being reported as pro-democracy.

The situation on the ground is not as simple as pro-EU and trade versus pro-Putin and Russian hegemony in the region.”



Source: The Red Phoenix

December 2013



Russia Today. Ukrainian Neo-Nazi skinheads

Civilisation Ukrainian-Style: Vandalising the Memorials to the Soldiers of the Anti-Hitler Coalition



Reunion of SS and UPA Nazi collaborators and their supporters in 2006 in the Ukraine.

r20.rs6.net



r20.rs6.net

traitors by others. Some of those fighters served under or cooperated with the Nazis, seeing a chance to overthrow the Soviet regime, while others fought both the Red Army and the Nazis.

December, McCain and the leader of Svoboda, the Neo-Nazi party





“Here protesters clash with riot police, one carries a homemade shield painted with a white power symbol and the numbers 14 and 88.

These numbers are common neo-Nazi slogans;with 14 standing for David Lane’s slogan (We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children) and 88 as code for HH, or Heil Hitler.”



Patriots burn flags, while white power flags are flown throughout the crowd

r20.rs6.net

Ukrainian Skinheads, The Times, 2006 Rally







Neo-Nazi thugs at the forefront of Ukrainian protests

Activists in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv wearing uniforms of the former Ukrainian Insurgent Army (known as UPA, from its Ukrainian language initials) marched in a large scale event in the city center today.

r20.rs6.net



r20.rs6.net



r20.rs6.net

The Svoboda leader also refers to the Nazi Stephan Bandera in the interview: “You must, as Stephan Bandera once said, “reach every Ukrainian” (see below to understand the significance of this statement).

Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnybok at a ceremony in 2009, celebrating Stephan Bandera, Nazi ally during the WWII, whose organization massacred Jews and Poles, now rehabilitated in Ukraine as “a patriot” and “national hero”.

People holding UPA (horizontal red and black) and Svoboda (3 yellow fingers on blue) flags march through Kyiv to the honor of the Nazi ally, Bandera.



Svoboda march together with UPA and other nationalists to the memory of Nazi ally, Stepan Bandera, Kyiv 2011.

r20.rs6.net



October 2011, torchlight procession in Kyiv, devoted to birthday of Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists, and also to all OUN-UPA fighters. The march was organised by the ‘Svoboda’ Pan-Ukrainian Association.

Images compiled by Michel Chossudovsky

Copyright © 2014 Global Research