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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 12:24:42 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541805

Well stated, Kate. Though your last paragraph is a bit of a stretch. I feel quite comfortable criticizing some of Tolstoy's works on the basis of having read those works. Or even suggesting they suggest Tolstoy character arguments.

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 12:44:55 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 541805

Sometimes Katelew you can read the whole Bible and still find plenty of crazy in it. You can go to a lot of churches, and still dislike organized religion. I love how you talk about generalizing from something and then put stuff like this in " Maybe their efforts make you feel guilty and you look for things to find fault with?" Maybe you really hate religion being attacked and get totally irrational when it happens, and want to strike out at the people who do that. I can understand that. It's annoying to have people dislike your faith, or faith in general. However, on THIS thread I am for more sympathetic to the logical agnostics than the illogical believers of any stripe- be they atheists or deity lovers. And don't go thinking you are any more logical than the people you are responding to. Because you are not. You just have different, equally biased (and sometimes less logically supported) assumptions. As for Krakauer, he wrote a great story- out of great material. I wouldn't generalize from the one story, but I'd add it to other data points.

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 12:55:07 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541805

Let me suggest another book you might read, Kate. A Mormon history written by a non-Mormon, very well researched, that cites all it's sources. Read the reviews, some by Mormons. amazon.com I read it from the main public library, right here in Salt Lake City. A website you might check out: exmormon.org

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 1:36:12 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541805

Have you read Krakauer's book? The entire thing? I thought it was brilliant and so do most people. He is a highly acclaimed author. No one sees him as simplistic. And he had to leave the US for a few years after that book because of death threats. As a coincidence, one of my friends who fishes in the summer and surfs in Mexico in the winter helped him learn to surf when he was escaping. I thought the book was so good, I bought a dozen copies and gave them to friends. I'll tell you my number one problem with Mormons. They do not educate their kids. Every single Mormon kid who has ever come to my front door, or I have spoken with, and we have a ton of Mormons up here, did not believe in evolution and when I asked them very simple questions they could not answer them. They seemed very uneducated. I compared them to my liberal friends kids the same age and those kids are light years ahead of them intellectually.

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 1:47:14 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541805

<< Krackauer takes this one murder to malign an entire religious group. He starts with this one factual event and then launches a chain of supposition and speculation clearly intended to attack the Mormon church. It's a beautifully written book and hits such an emotional chord in people (tabloid style) that readers forget his core piece of evidence is ONE murder.> Baloney. What are you talking about? Krakauer tells the entire history of the Mormon church. From the beginning i.e. the golden tablets and the huckster who sold that nonsense to a bunch of naïve people. Do you believe in the golden tablets? Funny they disappeared isn't it-lol! Did you read the entire book? Doesn't sound like it. He gives the specifics about how plural wives got in there and the journey west. He tells the entire story from beginning to end. What you talk about took place in the first 10 pages.

To: Katelew who wrote (253453)	6/20/2014 8:49:18 PM
From: loantech	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 541805

I hope as a good Mormon kate you let your men do all the thinking and that is what is sounds like you do. I also hope that when you die they choose to call you up to their Mormon heaven. Was your marriage consummated in the temple with the priest in your presence at the time? Little things Mormons used to do eh? Oh yes and the anointing with oil. LOL. Good grief what a sexist cult and that takes no critical thinking to see. oooh I wish I was polygamist porking all those young wives!!!!!! No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. utlm.org