SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Technology Stocks : MSFT Internet Explorer vs. NSCP Navigator -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: John F. Dowd who wrote (14960)12/16/1997 10:38:00 AM
From: Daniel Schuh  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 24154
 
And what of substance are you adding, John, other than to regurgitate the Microsoft company line? Microsoft has a right to make any argument it likes in court, just like Johnny Cochran did. Before the right audience, it plays well, but this matter isn't before a jury of Microsoft shareholders. I've heard too many times how different Microsoft is than anything else in the history of the known universe, and how this puts them above, beyond, around the law. Maybe Bill will supercede all governments, maybe not, I sort of doubt Microsoft would be very successful in an anarchic world, but who knows.

I learned my lesson here, I don't argue fine points of the law, only earnest high school civics. There are laws on the book, and a process for enforcing them and resolving disputes about what they mean. Microsoft's lawyers are free to advocate whatever position they want, but theirs is not the final word. The thing that always comes to mind when these arguments come up is what Archibald Cox said on a fateful Saturday night long ago. Are we a government of laws or men? If the men are Bill and old Steverino in his ethical, courteous, humorous wonder world, I'll take laws any day, even if I find some of them extremely stupid.

Cheers, Dan.



To: John F. Dowd who wrote (14960)12/16/1997 11:12:00 AM
From: Gerald R. Lampton  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 24154
 
>His writing is gobbledygook!

Maybe so, but he's got the future of Microsoft in his hands.

Let me clue you in on a few things.

If he does what most magistrates and federal masters do, he will prepare a report to the judge. In that report, he will go over all the evidence and resolve any disputed facts (where, for example, Microsoft says, "The light was red," and DOJ says, "The light was green" -- this guy who writes gobbledygook will decide who is right).

Now, what you decide the facts are will determine in large measure how the law gets applied to your case. For example, the issue of whether Microsoft has a monopoly of the OS market is a legal issue, but its actual market share numbers, and, most likely, the relevant market to be measured, are factual issues. So, this guy who writes what you call gobbledygook will decide what Microsoft's marketshare is in the OS market and will, in fact, decide what the relevant market is.

After he makes the factual determinations, the guy who writes gobbledygook will then make findings of law. Is Microsoft's share of the OS market a monopoly? Is their marketing of Windows and IE a tying arrangement? Does it violate the Sherman Act? These are the issues that will decide the case.

Now, the district judge will review these issues of fact and law de novo, meaning he will look at all the evidence and decide whether he agrees or disagrees with the special master. The district judge can alter or reject any of the special master's findings. But, more than likely (I would guess), he will accept most of them.

Of course, Microsoft has the right of appeal. Problem for Microsoft: on appeal, legal findings are reviewed de novo, but factual findings are subject to what is called the "clearly erroneous" standard. That means in simple terms that it is very hard to get them overturned once they are made.

Now, to throw an even bigger monkey wrench into this already confusing mix, here's what Lessig has to say about facts:

There's a confusion in this common view that goes to the core of
constitutional thought. It is a conflation of "fact" with the idea of the uncontestable, and of "value" with the idea of "up for grabs." "Facts," this view implies, "are the sorts of things we all must acknowledge; if the Constitution was wrong about a fact, then judges can change it to fix that mistake." "But values," it continues, "are the sorts of things that are chosen. They are up for grabs. So if the Constitution was wrong about a value, we must amend it to change it."

This view is mistaken, though there is something real here that it is trying to track. Facts are not all uncontested, and neither are all values contested. There are facts that are up for grabs, as well as values that are, as it were, off the table. Thus, rather than a rhetoric that tracks ontological categories, like fact and value, and that allows changes in constitutional law when we can identify a view grounded on facts, we should follow a rhetoric that tracks "up for grab-ness," or "off the table-ness," and recognize changes based on them. There are changes that a court must recognize, fidelity notwithstanding; these changes are changes in this category of the
uncontestable.


Lessig, Response THE PUZZLING PERSISTENCE OF BELLBOTTOM THEORY: WHAT A CONSTITUTIONAL THEORY SHOULD BE, 85 Geo. L.J. 1837 (1997).

This, then, is the view that will inform Lessig's understanding of what is a "fact" and what is an issue of "law" and how Lessig should go about deciding those issues.

And, if you don't like it, if Microsoft doesn't like it, tough. Tell it to the Court of Appeals.

BTW, Lessig apparently clerked for Justice Scalia. So he's not quite as pointy--headed as you might think.