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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (10132)	12/20/1997 6:51:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Is it just possible that God has a nice wonderful middle ground for all of us to meet in, rather than expecting all Jewish persons who do accept Jesus Christ finally as planned to totally denounce their Jewish ethnic likes and loves and try quickly appear to be Scotch? And is it a little rediculous that Americans who still have a lot of prairie settler DNA in their blood should come to a relationship with Jesus Christ and suddenly strive to become as Jewish as possible to anticipate the New Jerusalem? Aren't both arguments ludicrous? I believe so. I believe God is about smart enough to have figured it out. Yes, He still loves the Jews and always will, and more and more they are finding Jesus just like the church going Christians in name only who finally found Jesus one by one. And these people who are not Jewish, no way, not a trace, haven't even had a bowl of Matzo ball soup, can also be totally accepted into Christ as if nothing had ever gone wrong in the first plan. Somewhere in between is the truth. Why do you keep having to try to talk God out of the Old Testament and a large nation of Jews who live today. He never told you to preach the gospel of trying to separate Him from all of Jewish history, or to separate any Jewish person from their own God given lineage. Alan and Nancy aren't tell us to be Jewish converts and take up Jewish ways, but there seems to be an argument that they can't stay Jewish or cleave to any concept of the promise once given to Abraham that in fact God still loves them AS the original Isrea.l. Can you at least break down a little and admit that the Jews WERE the original Isreal? Sometimes I feel like Nancy, that the idea just sticks in your craw. (That's Kansas talk) Why? Give it a rest. As much time as I have spent in the Old Testament it's as if you would forbid the reading of it if you could, except for hints of the Messiah to come. Remember, Robert, Jesus did NOT COME TO EARTH AS A NEW GOD. THAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING. ALL WORDS OUT OF JESUS' MOUTH SPOKE OF HIS FATHER, OF HIS FATHER, OF HIS FATHER, WHO WAS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. THE LAST THING HE SAID AFTER HE RETURNED TO EARTH FROM THE DEAD AND WALKED AND TALKED WITH HUMANS WAS THAT HE WAS GOING NOW TO HIS FATHER. The point of the life of Jesus was to put us in touch with the God of Abraham. Not to erase the God of Abraham. NOR AT ANY TIME DID JESUS SAY I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, FORGET HIM, I AM HE. I hope we can all get this cleared up one day.

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (10132)	12/20/1997 7:06:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Respond to of 39621

Robert, I tried to add to that post to know that I was not arguing with you because I know you are right. And I'm not arguing with Nancy and Alan because I know they are right. Robert, the spirit of Jesus Christ cannot contradict himself nor can He be confused. Only we can. I think this has finally turned into discussion of Godly matters we should all sort out and enjoy sorting out. If you will notice, in Rev. 10 there is an interesting event which we pretty much ignore. Apparently it may be an angel who finally decides enough is enough here because God in His mercy can't. Then the 8th angel begins to call out that the earth should be no more to Heaven But during this time, John states, during this time, which I believe is now, "that when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants and prophets." Perhaps discussing these important matters are part of this. But it is time to be sure everything we say is the Perfect Will of God in the matter, I do believe.

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (10132)	12/21/1997 1:29:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Robert I don't understand why you think I don't understand the importance of believing in the Lord for salvation.If I wanted to spend the time to go back thru my post I can show you I have repeatedly stated that the only true salvation is only thru Yeshua. That is were my confidence is totally placed in Him alone. But do you ever say what is it that Nancy and Alan are percieving as negative in our statements is there nothing in you that cares to understand and learn how to be a more effective witness to the Jewish people. I have said many times that if I had heard what you are saying in the way you are saying it I would want no part of it at all. So bare with me for I am trying to communicate that love is better than the sermons of angels and tongues or all the arguements presented in a way that makes it look like God has forsaken His people. I can see that is not totally what you are presenting because I have had previous loving Christian relationships and I unlike what is happening here streached my beliefs to just hear were they were coming from. My God is big enough that I don't have to panic and crame every belief I have on them because they don't see as soon as I think they should. I will never be an Amilenialist as I believe you and Emile are and thats OK with me. I can love and respect you because I know how great He is and how longsuffering and gentle He is.I suggest that only scripture be used and avoid qoutes from books that no one has, the Word of God is enough for us to study for ever and still learn. I love the Lord with all my heart all my soul and all of my mind, and I can say that He has tremendous integrity and would not use the Jewish people and leave them. You may choose to believe this but I know it does not fit with a faithful God to an unfaithful people throughout the entire Bible. Come quickly Lord Jesus and take us all home, Nancy