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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (287776)	1/9/2016 12:48:48 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542214

Theology in this country has not been a benign institution. It has been a primary institution for evil throughout our history. It has been used to keep down women, just like it's being used today to keep down gays. It was the Mormon church that defeated the equal rights amendment for women. Just as it was the Mormon church that funded proposition eight in California against gay marriage. Oh, please, this is why it doesn't work to have this conversation here. The over generalization, misplaced yada yada is way, way over the top. Where, for instance, do you think many if not most abolitionists came from? Where do you think many, if not most, civil rights participants of the late 50s and early to mid 60s came from? Do you even know about the Social Gospel movement of the early part of the previous century? The various worker movements, such as the Catholic Workers Movement? Liberation Theology? I could go on and on.

To: koan who wrote (287776)	1/9/2016 5:33:30 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542214

Koan It's not like we don't talk about religion. But it's always going to be simplistic. There are many books on this- but even a book can't capture everything. There are so many religions. And within religions there are various flavors. When you look at any issue- there are religious on both sides. I (as you know- and as I always say) don't like any religion because mostly they involve magical thinking (even that's not universal). But as for quantifying the effect of religion on society? I couldn't do that in my own city, much less in the country or across the globe. I still don't like it, though. Because I don't think magical thinking is good for people. However, that's an opinion. And I'm aware of research that seems to indicate magical thinking can be good for the people who think it, despite the (potentially negative) consequences for the people around the magical thinking people. But at the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe. You can't change people's minds on issues that have statistics, and science- so you'll never change their minds (with argument) on issues that involve pure belief. The more we study belief, the weirder it seems. You can talk all you want about religion- it happens all the time here. It's not forbidden. It's just one of those pointless areas- like trying to argue with people about the flavor of ice cream they like. Which is not to say you can't get annoyed at religion and spout off- goodness knows I do that myself, just don't lose touch with reality and think you are accomplishing anything, because you are not.