SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Technology Stocks : Ericsson overlook? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: DWB who wrote (1186)1/3/1998 8:28:00 AM
From: Jim Lurgio  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 5390
 
Vaporwareeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan ,
Here is an article that was afforded in April of 1997 which provides a lot of talk about vaporware or bcdma /wcdma. I have chose a few thing to comment on but the whole article is worth reading . Note the comment by the director of the CDG (Cdma Development Group ), he says "CDG Executive Director Perry LaForge said the new IS-95 data rate would be substantially better" than the 9.6 and 14.4 kbps capabilities coming into the market this year. However, vendor sources indicated they will hit the new plateau of 64 kbps with products within a two-year time frame. To go beyond that level, they said, will require implementation of wider band channels of 5 megahertz or more, which will require a new standard. "

How about the paragraph were the Motorola rep says "We'll be deploying our first voice-speed data systems at 9.6/14.4 [kbps] in August, with general product availability coming later in the year," said Graham Haddock, vice president and general manager of Motorola Inc.'s Personal Communications Division. "There's probably a two-year horizon on getting to 56 and 64 kilobit data rates."

Note how the spokesperson for CDG says . " To go beyond that level, they said, will require implementation of wider band channels of 5 megahertz or more, which will require a new standard. "

Seems to me that 5mhz is right were vaporware wcdma and bcdma are targeted and also he mentions a new standard. HMM.

Also note what Mark Lemmo of IDC says, ""We expect to have the 144 kbps product available commercially in the first half of next year and will move to 384 kbps as the next step by the end of '98," Lemmo said. The system is designed to work at a number of bandwidth levels, depending on local operator licensing and business strategies, with scalability in increments of 3.5 megahertz, he added.

At 15 megahertz, the top level channelization scheme possible with the InterDigital system, the system will eventually be able to deliver aggregate throughput of 2.88 Mbps at a propagation distance of 10 kilometers, Lemmo said.

The CDG spokesperson is saying 14.4 like the old modems for 08/97 and in two years 64 kbps , Mot is saying the same and IDC's consortium have demonstrated 144 kbs three times this year and says 384 by the end of 98. ERICY has also said 384 with their wideband system. IDC claims at maximum bandwidth a huge output of 2.8 million bytes per second.

Broadband or Wideband is clearly intended at first to capture the fixed WLL . This market is the masses who have never made a phone call. If we are to assume that all the above statements are true than clearly the CDG rep as well as the Mot person have told us that narrow band IS-95 doesn't have the capabilities of a broadband version. I don't feel bcdma or wcdma are currently a threat to IS-95 because they lack mobility. When and if either become mobile as promised they would definitely be a threat.

From the April 21, 1997 issue of Wireless Week

Vendors To Introduce Wide-bandwidth CDMA

Proponents Demand Compatibility

By Fred Dawson

Wireless system suppliers are preparing to announce a big leap forward in Interim Standard-95 support for higher data
speeds. This comes at a moment when market demand for even wider-band services threatens to outpace efforts to achieve a
next-generation code division multiple access standard.

The CDMA Development Group will soon unveil a vendor-supported strategy for making it possible to deliver up to
64-kilobit-per-second data streams over IS-95 systems operating within the current 1.25-megahertz channelization scheme.
At the same time, the group is pursuing an advanced systems initiative aimed at pushing throughput into the
1-megabit-per-second range and beyond over next-generation systems that would be backward compatible with IS-95.

CDG Executive Director Perry LaForge said the new IS-95 data rate would be "substantially better" than the 9.6 and 14.4
kbps capabilities coming into the market this year. However, vendor sources indicated they will hit the new plateau of 64 kbps
with products within a two-year time frame. To go beyond that level, they said, will require implementation of wider band
channels of 5 megahertz or more, which will require a new standard.

"We'll be deploying our first voice-speed data systems at 9.6/14.4 [kbps] in August, with general product availability coming
later in the year," said Graham Haddock, vice president and general manager of Motorola Inc.'s Personal Communications
Division. "There's probably a two-year horizon on getting to 56 and 64 kilobit data rates."

However, as developers seek to parlay operators' investments in IS-95 infrastructure into a long-range evolutionary track that
will ensure next-generation wideband systems are backward compatible with today's systems, market demand for wideband
capabilities at 144 kbps and above is pushing development of proprietary CDMA systems at a faster clip, especially in
applications tied to fixed, wireless local loop services. As a result, there are likely to be proprietary CDMA systems available
operating at 144 kbps or above as the IS-95 systems move to 64 kbps.

"You're going to see a lot of those [WLL] systems deployed over the next couple of years," said John Marinho, technical
director for wireless network systems at Lucent Technologies Inc. "These proprietary excursions in the interim between now
and when standards are completed could divert attention away from the standards-setting process."

Under its advanced systems initiative, CDG is working with service providers and manufacturers to define "a multitude" of
mobile and fixed service capabilities that are not available over IS-95 systems today, LaForge said. "We want to ensure that
current CDMA system operators will have a simplified evolution to next-generation services."

Vendors are not clear yet as to where the major opportunities lie for wideband systems, although the earliest versions are
aimed at meeting requirements in fixed WLL applications. However, there is also considerable interest in mobile applications
that would allow customers to connect PCs and other intelligent devices to data links on an untethered basis, Haddock noted.

"Our marketing people and customers are still arguing over where the primary applications lie, in fixed or mobile," he said.

Once CDG has worked out the requirements for a next-generation, IS-95 compatible system, it will submit them to the
International Telecommunications Union as part of the ITU's pursuit of a comprehensive next-generation standard known as
"International Mobile Telecommunications 2000."

Many parties to the ITU discussion expect to see CDMA emerge as the template for next-generation systems, with various
iterations tailored to the legacy needs of national infrastructures. However, the process is in flux with considerable
disagreement over time frames and the extent to which the final standard will be tied exclusively to CDMA.

"In Europe, the push for a next-generation standard is pretty much the work of the same group that brought out GSM [global
system for mobile communications]," Haddock noted. "CDMA is one of the two finalists [with time division multiple access] as
that group's choice of an air interface, but they're probably still a year away from making a final decision."

So far, the Europeans have set 2003-2004 as the target dates for completing a next-generation standard, but interests
elsewhere believe the date should be moved up. "There's a great deal of debate going on over the timeframe for arriving at a
standard," Marinho said, noting that people in Japan are pushing for agreement by 2000.

The focal point of wideband CDMA efforts in Japan is an initiative undertaken by wireless service provider NTT DoCoMo,
which has called on Lucent, Ericsson Inc. and several other vendors to supply 5-megahertz CDMA systems capable of
delivering 384 kbps for experimental installations by the end of this year, with the capability of eventually handling data rates of
up to 2 Mbps. The Japanese and European next-generation CDMA concepts are incompatible with each other, and neither is
backward compatible with IS-95.

CDG's advanced systems team hopes to work closely with NTT DoCoMo to achieve closer compatibilities between the
next-generation Japanese and IS-95-related systems, LaForge said, noting that eight of the manufacturers selected by NTT
are members of CDG. With deployment of IS-95 now racing forward in cellular, PCS and WLL applications, it "is now clear
that IS-95 will serve as the foundation for wideband next-generation systems as well," he said.

Others are more cautious. "Whether it turns out that we have one worldwide next-generation CDMA standard is a big
question at this point," Haddock said. He noted the NTT group is hoping to persuade the Europeans to take the Japanese
approach, which would break with the IS-95 mold.

Backers of IS-95 compatibility have to contend with several factors underlying resistance to this step, Haddock said. These
include costs of incorporating the IS-95 interfaces and a distaste in many quarters for using technology that must be licensed
through a U.S. supplier-namely, Qualcomm Inc.

However, from the IS-95 user's perspective, the lower cost approach is one that takes advantage of some of the existing
infrastructure to support the next-generation system, he added.

With the pace and direction of next-generation standards setting in contention among the leading powers in wireless, suppliers
of proprietary systems see a near-term opportunity for their products in a market hungry for more bandwidth. In one case in
point, InterDigital Communications Corp., supplier of the TDMA-based UltraPhone in conjunction with Siemens AG and
Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., is now working with these firms on development of fixed wireless wideband CDMA systems
for trials in the United States and abroad, starting later this year.

The first trial made known publicly is slated to take place over the facilities of Worldwide Wireless Inc., which has licenses in a
variety of frequency bands covering territories in three New England states. This system will operate at 144 kbps with the
capability of delivering data at integrated services digital network speeds simultaneously with voice and related
telecommunications services, said Mark Lemmo, executive vice president of engineering and product operations at InterDigital.

"We expect to have the 144 kbps product available commercially in the first half of next year and will move to 384 kbps as the
next step by the end of '98," Lemmo said. The system is designed to work at a number of bandwidth levels, depending on
local operator licensing and business strategies, with scalability in increments of 3.5 megahertz, he added.

At 15 megahertz, the top level channelization scheme possible with the InterDigital system, the system will eventually be able to
deliver aggregate throughput of 2.88 Mbps at a propogation distance of 10 kilometers, Lemmo said.

Developers working within the IS-95 framework are leaning toward 5-megahertz channels as the optimum scheme for fixed
and mobile applications alike. The first iterations are likely to operate at 144 kbps, with later versions topping out at
"somewhere between 384 and 500 kbps," Haddock said.

By moving to a packetized format for data, next-generation systems will support allocation of bandwidth on a contention basis,
increasing the number of potential users per channel, Haddock noted. Moreover, use of sectorized antennas will support
frequency reuse within the cell serving area so that, overall, a fairly large number of users will be able to connect at high-speed
data rates, he added.

Yet even 1 Mbps throughput at the 5-megahertz channel level "would be pushing it," as Haddock put it, which means the data
rate per any level of frequency allocation will remain much lower for CDMA wireless access than it is for wireline access.
However, use of smart antenna technology could go a long way toward improving the bandwidth efficiency, making
CDMA-based systems more competitive in fixed applications, Marinho noted.

"Smart antennas will play an ever greater role in increasing the throughput capability of CDMA," Marinho said. "As the number
of users goes up, so does the interference, which smart antennas can help minimize."




To: DWB who wrote (1186)1/8/1998 1:35:00 PM
From: Maurice Winn  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 5390
 
Daniel, well, you make some reasonable points. But they don't rescue Ericsson.

"Negotiating a better CDMAone license - this would only be true if they actually had a system. If Q is so convinced that it's vaporware (which would seem to be common knowledge in the Q camp), this "benefit" is non-existent and should be laughed at when used as a bargaining chip."

It really is guesswork on both Ericsson's and Qualcomm's parts as to the likelihood of Ericsson coming up with a commercial CDMA system. No doubt, given Ericsson's expertise in the industry, they could at some stage do the job, but the question is when. Suppose they didn't threaten Qualcomm with a competitive system, there would be little incentive for Qualcomm to give much ground at all on the price of a license. But if there is in 3 or 5 years going to be a competitive system, it would be worth Qualcomm's while to keep Ericsson in the cdmaOne world. It remains fair comment to call it vaporware. Early stage vaporware at that. My opinion is that Qualcomm and cdmaOne are so far ahead that Ericsson will lose massive market share before they can get something going. They won't have any competitive advantage to speak of [Qualcomm's royalty on cdmaOne being the only advantage I've thought of - other than the usual existing brand image etc which Ericsson enjoys. But no technical merit of Erisson's system over the cdmaOne approach].

"Delaying CDMAone progress - only if the alternative systems are CDMAone derived. From my understanding, WCDMA isn't intended to directly compete with IS-95 CDMAone or GSM, and therefore shouldn't impede their progress... from what Jim has posted, if the Samsung/IDC efforts aren't CDMAone related, then it would only impede the "vaporware" CDMAone 3G systems that QCOM must be involved in."

Sure, the widerband systems will compete with GSM and cdmaOne existing systems. But offer better functionality as well as compete with voice only. True enough that Qualcomm's wider cdmaOne is vaporware, but let's face it, they have proven expertise in the area which others such as Motorola have had trouble duplicating. All vaporwares are not equal. We'll see how much effort Samsung puts into this new effort now that they've run out of money.

"Talking themselves into doing it - if this is the case, then we're really saying Ericsson management doesn't yet have an implementation plan with regard to wideband systems... which I find hard to believe, given last year's emphasis in their annual report on the future planning they've done."

The first thing you need to do to create some reality is talk yourself into it. Like, "Let's put a man on the moon!" Sensible people say, "What? Are you crazy?" No implementation plan, just a dream. Often enough, such dreams can come to fruition. Ericsson is clearly talking themselves into doing it. Sometimes, all too often, dreams turn to dust. History is littered with failed dreams and the bodies of those who tried to make the dream work.

"Keeping others from developing systems - As Jim has pointed out, IDC/Siemens seems to be going full steam ahead. Also remember, Nokia is a full partner in the WCDMA idea, so they must be in cahoots on the "vaporware" nature of the equipment as well. QCOM isn't being deterred from 3G systems by Ericsson's efforts, are they? So how can the threat of a "known" vaporware 3G Ericsson/Nokia system hold back the mighty Q?"

Certainly, Qualcomm and pals won't be deterred by Ericsson's vaporware. They will be spurred on to create their own - to ensure Ericsson doesn't actually pull victory from the jaws of defeat. But others such as Samsung, Siemens, Interdigital who are putting in effort, might give up in the face of two competing efforts. Ericsson had to confront Qualcomm regardless so it would have been better to be silent and hope to quietly get ahead of Qualcomm, but there was also the need to defeat Samsung and co. Plus the other factors pushes for early announcement. Just as Qualcomm did all those years ago, to talk themselves into it, get support, delay competition, get people to wait , raise money etc. As you say, the time to fruition might be less than cdmaOne took since there is already a lot of general expertise in the CDMA area now extant.

"By feeling they are doing something - I think Ericsson's management has proven that tilting at windmills isn't high on their priority list, as shown by the continued financial success over the last few years."

Yes, but when the shareholders panic over the cdmaOne onslaught, management better have some red hot plan, and pretend they always had it. They know only too well that they can't rest on the laurels of their previous excellence. Being seen to do something is not for the management's self satisfaction, it is to justify their position in the judgement of their employers.

"If they have no wideband system in place in 5 years, they will have fallen drastically from their position as the world's leader. Current configurations of GSM won't be an option for 3G type applications, as they've already admitted, and that is the rationale for a 3G system in the first place. If we you stated came to pass, I'm guessing they would have fallen a bit too far in their customers eyes for "We're
sorry" to work very well ...

But what else can they do? Sorry is all that's left when you go back to customers and shareholders with failed dreams. Your paragraph describes what I believe will be the outcome. Of course it is guesswork. We all place our bets.

"As far as proving the systems really exist... I would imagine we'll get a pretty good indication when the hardware starts getting tested by DOCOMO. Everything else before then is guesswork, on both sides of the argument, unless your an Ericsson employee/spy. I have to prove nothing at the moment. Tom made the claim that Ericsson's system is vaporware. Where I come from, the accuser has the burden of proof, not the accused (Innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent, the IRS and tax cases notwithstanding). I also find it hard to put much faith in the "guilt by perceived historical similarity" argument which seems to be the prime piece of evidence presented.

In 1991, Qualcomm was testing live systems in San Diego. It took another 5 years to start selling them. So DOCOM testing will be an indication only. Of course you have to prove nothing, but without proof of something real, the positive, it is fair enough to call it all hot air, wishful thinking, vaporware. Ericsson's former Marketing Director, Frezza used words like fraud, con, scam in regard to Qualcomm's efforts. They really really really didn't think it possible to make CDMA work. Guilt by perceived historical similarity is how we judge much in the world. And rightly so.

Then you get naughty, using slogans to think, like "innocent until proven guilty". The onus of proof is on Ericsson and their agents. Salesmen have the burden of proof. I don't know how many customers you have sat in front of, but I can tell you that if you say "prove it doesn't work!" you will be turfed out of the office in seconds.

"At least one advantage of an Ericsson wideband system is that being backward compatible with GSM, it has a larger installed suscriber base. Depending on the outcome of the Vodaphone trials, this might become only a complexity advantage, i.e. not requiring an extra layer of technology to interface to those same GSM systems. As far as a technical advantage, it's impossible to say until all the systems
are up and running."

Being backward compatible with GSM, the Ericsson system and Qualcomm systems will have the same extra layers. I don't see any advantage here other than that customers probably prefer Ericsson being the incumbent supplier. And that is a vital advantage. Incumbents are hard to displace. Unless somebody comes along with a better mousetrap.

Run Ericsson, run!!

Maurice