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Pastimes : And The 7th Angel Sounded -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (108)	1/3/1998 2:16:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Respond to of 609

Robert, a very interesting point is brought up here--Moses and the Promised Land. Haven't really spent hours and hours studying it, to tell the truth. But Moses was the ONLY human to be recorded that experienced such miracles with his eyes, and then was able to see probably Jesus as the representation of God, or perhaps even the blinding light of the one who sits on the throne. I sure couldn't decide which One, but he did see them. And he did see the fire that burns without consuming. That fire is real. It is a fire that is a fire, but it does not burn. It is pure spiritual fire, without the heat. So he did see it, and the bush was on fire but did not burn. After all that, is it possible he fell back into a human frame of mind and got caught up with keeping the law? And other worldly things which do seem real while we're here? That is interesting, and I wonder if the story is told there in code in the scriptures that something more along those lines happened rather than a moment of anger. Jesus too had a moment of anger, and God is revealed in the O.T> as having several moments of what humans describe in words as "anger". When we take away all anger from God, we say that is not possible God "could be angry". It's just.....not something God would do.... But wiithout a feeling of the negative or anger, people could and would still sacrifice babies to a stone image of the sun and see nothing wrong with it because it would feel "good" to them. As it once did for almost millions. I think the high points of reasoning out the matters of the God of Abraham and the Father of Jesus Christ are matters of the Holy Spirit to explain, period. When the carnal mind without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by mutual agreement begins to discuss the things of God, it can go anywhere. I say this for a specific reason, and not just to throw it out. But you have definitely hit upon something there with Moses, I believe. Not to start a huge debate over it, but just to mention that there is a new insight there which might explain it more than the simplistic ideas most people have regarding Moses and the Promised Land.

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (108)	1/3/1998 5:55:00 PM
From: Carol	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 609

Yes, exactly. We are not saved by our works. We can spend our lives doing good works, but it is like dirty rags in God's eyes, if our attitude is that somehow we have done this on our own. What I have expressed on these threads are my own personal opinions and experiences based on a lifetime of getting to know God's way of life. I have seen a miracle happen this weekend in my own life, that confirms to me, that God is a loving, kind Father who will not abandon one of his children, until they are completely lost to him through their own choice. When it says in the Bible, that he knows every little sparrow that falls to the ground, I believe he actually does. An analogy: As a mother, it doesn't matter what my child does, I would love her, try to do what I can to help her as much as she will allow me. I would never abandon her, so how can I believe that God, as a loving Father, would have less love for me and all people, regardless of their sinful state. Am I more loving than God? I think not. Jane, I know you will read this, and as I am not interested in engaging in religious debate with you, I will say this. You have your image of God and I have mine. They are not the same God, I do not believe. I have found the people on the Metaphysic thread to be wonderful, creative, deep thinking people, with wonderful minds that I'm sure God appreciates, because he gave them this ability. And being the intelligent, open-minded people that they are, they surely understand much more than you give them credit for and will find their way to truth. This subject is now closed for me, I do not have to prove that I am one of God's children, I know that we are all his... Respectfully Carol

To: Robert E. Hall who wrote (108)	1/4/1998 12:26:00 PM
From: gregor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 609

Greetings Robert: In continuing your discussion of Moses and the Law, I appreciate your insight into why God rejected the idea of Moses entering the promised land. I still have some serious discrepencies in my thinking however: for instance, could the rock that Moses struck be an indication of the future church or body of Christ, and could the staff that Moses struck it with be an indicator of the actions of Christ and how He ( Christ) would not want his leaders to eventually lead and guide His followers or sheep. This being the case, God did not then nor now tolerate a misuse of the authority that He entrusts to persons over His sheep. If this is the case, Moses's diobedience centered around His intolerance and impatience in leading the children of God. This is one case. Another case would be the ongoing saga of the temper of Moses. First He kills an Egyptian that was beating a child of God and was in exile for I believe 30 or 40 years. This act was not condoned by God while forgiven. Then He did not want to heed the call of God and almost argued with God to take the call off his life. He threw the ten commandments down and broke them, and the second time had to hew out his own stone and carry the stone back up the mountain. And He had to live in almost constant intercession before God in his attempt to seek and guide the holy nation of Israel, with leadership being a constant burden to him and you get the feeling he would constantly bombard God with all the same whining and complaining that he heard from his people. So therefore could it be that this final act of striking the stone was merely the straw that finally broke the camels back. If so then God's judgement seems appropriate and merciful and steeped with leniency.. In Christ..gregor