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Strategies & Market Trends : The Rational Analyst -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/6/1998 8:51:00 AM
From: Scott H. Davis  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1720
 
[stock chat on valuation models] Rainier, good post. What are you thoughts of taking historical and projected growth into the model.
For example, if the company is either now or is projected to soon be loosing money, the low valuations may depict a false impression of value, where a stock with a PE of 15 & growth rates of 25% may be a more attractive situation.

Maybe I over analize, and/or try to take too many things into consideration simultaneously, but as a clinical analyst reponsible for overall systems integration for a healthcare network, it seems all I do is deal with a mound of details & challenges.

To All: Perhaps you're all wrestling with the same problem of trying of determine when to rely on certain tools & when to use judgement, but I would still be interested in responses to the question on the effacy of TA during the end of tax loss season following a year of big gains. Scott



To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/6/1998 10:42:00 AM
From: Wink  Respond to of 1720
 
Here are the results of a screen which satisfies #1, #2, #4. Also since I couldn't screen for #3, I added return on equity greater than 15% to get the number of companies down from 100+. Let me know what you think. ;>)

ALGOMA STEEL INC
BERNARD HALDANE ASSOC
CASTELLE
CASTLE ENERGY CORPORATN
CERBCO INC CL A
CHINA PACIFIC INC
CHINA RESOURCES DEVEL
DMI FURNITURE INC
ELECTRIC & GAS TECH INC
FIRETECTOR INC
FIRST ENTERPRISE FIN GR
GRUPO INDUSTRIAL DURANGO
HOWELL CORP
HUNTINGDON LIFE SCIENCES
INTERCONTINENTAL LIFE CP
J ALEXANDER'S CORP
JB OXFORD HOLDINGS INC
MEGO MORTGAGE CORP
MERIDIAN POINT REALTY 83
NEW ENGLAND REALTY ASSOC
RAYTECH CORP
S3 INC
SPARTON CORP
UNIMAR CO



To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/6/1998 11:19:00 AM
From: Robert Graham  Respond to of 1720
 
IMO valuation can never be placed into one ratio. Many analysts attempt to do this, but perhaps that is why they are usually in error. Between this "one ratio" approach and their straight line exptrapolation of a company's earnings growth, gross errors are introducred into the valuation picture. However, I do agree that the free cash flow of a company and what can impact this in the future is a very improtant consideration as a component of an investor's total approach to valuation.

Also, I agree that TA can help to at least determine the interest that is being demonstrated by the investor in a company's stock. Much more than this can be done with TA IMO, but this would be a start that may be palatable to some of the fundamentally based investors here. Keeping it simple like this for the person who is not conversant in TA will help. It is one thing for you and I to recognize a stock's' value, but if we are alone in this, the stock will go nowhere. Also, there are industries that have their cycles in the market. Why wait more than we need to for the payoff?

Bob Graham



To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/6/1998 8:14:00 PM
From: ftth  Respond to of 1720
 
[contrarian screen results]Hi Rainier, here's the results of your screen. Lots of ways to calculate each of these (using trailing, fiscal year, projected, or some combination thereof), so the results may vary by a change in one time frame. Cash flow, as you know, also has many variations and requires detailed study of the footnotes in the statement of cashflows, as well as a close look at trends in D&A, discretionary capital spending, deferred taxes, debt repayments, preferred dividends, and a few others I'm sure I left out. Even "free cash flow" doesn't really have a standardized definition. After spending MUCH time trying to develop a way to easily scan a universe of stocks using cash flow, I came to the conclusion that the best thing to do was search for at least 2 years of positive and increasing cash flow from operations and the same for net income, then weed it out further manually. Fixed ratios applied to the whole universe were too restrictive and inconsistent (entire industry groups were left out when in fact investors may pose no penalty for high ratios in some industry groups, e.g software). Also, sales-related ratios may unfairly leave out entire industry groups (e.g. some financials). In any event, here's the screen I ran:

P/E using trailing 12 Month EPS < 12
Price/Book (common equity) < 1.5
Price/Cash Flow last completed FY < 10
P_S_ratio (sales=trailing 12 mo) < 1
% Change Price - 1 Week > 0
% Change Price - 4 Weeks > 0

And the winners are:

AMW
AQS
ASFT
ATA
BIRD
BZH
CAN
CASA
CGM
CMAG
CNP.B
CV
CVC
DK
DOTX
DWYR
EZM.A
FTPS
GRO
HDS
HMII
JACCQ
JL
LEN
LORX
MBRK
MCH
MEDA
MFN
MGP
MOTR
NAN
NKID
NMK
OAKC
OHC.A
OLGR
OREX
PCR
PDM
PRCC
PSI
REPS
RSGI
SIRN
SLCM
STKY
SUND
TAVI
THT
TNH
TNR
TUG
UH
USG
WGNR
WOA
WS
WSTNA

Let me know which ones are left after your weed-eater chops away!
(P.S. I'm not a big fan of this screen so I won't likely participate in buys, but just because I'm not a big fan of it doesn't mean someone else can't make some cash on a basket of these stocks). At least 4 purchased simultaneously, from leading, and uncorrelated industry groups, with strong technicals would be one way to approach this. Hope this helps someone make some good money this year!
dh



To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/6/1998 8:43:00 PM
From: Galirayo  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1720
 
[ Price-to-Cash Flow ] Hi Rainier.

I hope you had a Simply Maaaavaliss Vacation & Fun at home with your Family.

I did a Scan on Price to Cash Flow and I don't know if it works or not. It Blows Up when I get to the Symbol .... NET.

Let yo know if I work it out.

Happy New Year ... Chartmeister!

Ray



To: HeyRainier who wrote (137)1/7/1998 12:37:00 AM
From: Galirayo  Respond to of 1720
 
[ A Triangle ] Rainier,

I did the AT on the Close and Hi.
Message 3109803

And here is something to occupy you if you get Bored.

But you have to make sure your SI Navigation is turned ... ....ON.
You may have to click it 10 times or so to get it to work rite.
I've had some difficulty with it.
techstocks.com

Ray