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Pastimes : SI Grammar and Spelling Lab -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Patrick Slevin who wrote (593)	1/6/1998 12:21:00 PM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Patrick, I don't believe I said "all Americans" and I am seldom politically correct. I also am not prone to making blanket statements. And after reading some of your posts, I realize that you like taking a slightly aggressive and insulting approach for what is either (at best)the sake of argument, or (at worst) because you're not very nice. It's a technique I've observed and grown to dislike intensely on SI. So let me just say that nothing is ever cut and dried and that the preceding posts were my opinion, based on a great deal of travel and a lot of reading, but not a scientific study and so certainly could be inaccurate. As might you be. Maybe that will satisfy you. Or maybe not. But let's drop it.

To: Patrick Slevin who wrote (593)	1/6/1998 5:38:00 PM
From: Thomas C. White	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4711

"..although I rarely travel to countries that are not predominately English speaking, I have yet to meet the American who seriously believes that other cultures should speak English in order to make it convenient for the American tourist..." I guess that's probably why then. If you don't often go to countries where they don't speak English, then I'd wager you won't see much evidence. Kind of like looking for evidence of spousal abuse in a convent. As a veteran of some sixty nine overseas trips (sixty eight of them to countries which are not English speaking), of durations of up to seven months, I can assure you these people do exist in minions. Most of them (penni's travel agent excepted) will not openly pontificate about the lack of English; rather, it will typically come out in various other and equally obnoxious ways. I've seen a table full of Americans in Shanghai make fun of a Chinese waiter because of his poor English pronunciation (I couldn't help but wonder how good their Mandarin was). I've seen an American at the ticket window in a small German train station endlessly repeat, ever more slowly, loudly, and irately, the words "round trip ticket to Munich, please!" as if that would somehow help the poor idiot to understand better. I've watched a couple in Paris argue apoplectically with a parking lot attendant because their parking ticket did not have the words "Absolutely no in and out privileges" in English as well as French. Only a fool will ask for directions in Portuguese or Russian if he doesn't speak them fluently. The resulting torrent of babble will be worse than useless. This is not what people in other countries expect from foreigners. Generally, whether in Austria, Thailand, or Egypt, they are looking for a few small tokens of cultural respect. Even in Paris, walking up to someone, smiling self-consciously and asking, in their language, "Pardon me, but do you speak English?" will usually work wonders. Many Americans I have seen don't even try to attempt this most basic of gestures. They walk up to someone and, in English, ask, "do you speak English?" I live in San Francisco, which probably has more international tourists per square mile than another city in the country, and I've never had an Italian tourist come up to me and ask me in perfect Italian if I spoke Italian. Why? Because first of all, they probably speak enough English to get by on an American vacation. And second, because they assume that I'm an American, and probably don't speak Italian. Or French. Or Spanish. Or German. Or what have you. I must also admit to being just a bit bemused. You accuse penni of having the unmitigated temerity to be making "blanket statements" about Americans. You run into some admittedly boorish Frenchmen in a bar in Ireland, and they become "Frogs" and "Euro-trash." I'm really not one to rush to conclusions, but this strikes me as just a tad "blanket." Do you keep a ready stock of racial and national pejoratives, suitable for all occasions, maybe each one good for a beer or two on the house?

To: Patrick Slevin who wrote (593)	1/6/1998 7:38:00 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Hi Patrick, I do not wish to tar the French with the one brush but I have a funny story to tell you. I took immersion french in college. My teacher was a wonderful lady, very sweet and funny. One day when visiting France (Paris to be exact), after receiving her doctorate in french, she tried to ask for directions in french, on a train. The conductor looked down his nose at her and said in a very thick accent "Madame, my english much better than your french. Please speak english." She warned us that no matter how hard we tried, THEY would always be able to tell we were American by our accents. She did say the folks in the countryside were extremely nice, and were very sweet about her french.