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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (16830)	1/24/1998 1:03:00 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

<"This is a young kid, an intern,'' Graff said. " ... If this were an old battle-ax, I think the feeling would be less outrage, less shock, less a feeling of 'I am appalled.' ...> Whoa boy! Ain't that sensitive. Battle-axes just don't get any respect anymore. How old do you have to be to be a battle-ax anyway? Or is it a combination of age and weight?

To: Grainne who wrote (16830)	1/24/1998 6:16:00 PM
From: jim kelley	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

Grace, Black humor aside....... It is becoming increasingly clear from the news reports that what has been going on behind the scenes with Starr,the FBI, Clinton, Monica, Tripp, and the woman behind Tripp. It is a thorughly disgusting government and tabloid operation throughout. Since I did not vote for Clinton, I do not have a political position at stake here. In fact, if Clinton has done even half of what is alleged I do not have sympathy for him because he knew he was a target and and took his chances anyway. There is little doubt that he mislead people with his statements (this is not illegal). He also put those with whom he may have had such relationships at risk. However, it is really unclear whether he actually lied publically or under oath since his wording was always so carefully chosen. There are genuine character issues that can be discussed with this President , especially, as it pertains to his weakest area, his libido. It also raises many more personal issues regarding his marriage to Hillary. This appears to be more of an arrangement than anything else. I think he is now paying big time for the arrangement. Only, he can say whether it was worth it. I doubt if Starr will be able to conclusively prove any obstruction of justice charges or perjury charges against Clinton. With respect to the obstruction charges, at this time it appears that the best Starr could possibly do is is bring a pissing contest to court. If Monica says she lied before who is to believe her now? Her credibility is shot.Tripp is not believable at all since her motivations are money and fame primarily.The perjury charge is more simple in that it hinges on the wording of the question and the answer. If there is any ambiguity in either, the perjury allegation will fail. Any other bimbo relationships do not appear to be relevant since the perjury and obstruction cases hinge on the Paula Jones testimony and Monica's testimony. Thus, the situation is that Bill has settled for less than a desirable marital relationship which obviously does not satisfy he basic wants and needs and has compromised himself with these dalliances. Sad but not illegal! Tripp comes off as a very ugly woman who violated her "friends" confidences and may have ruined her "friends" life prospects in order to make money off a tabloid expose. Starr and the FBI come off as a bunch of sneaky and threatening individuals who violated Monica's legal rights and took advantage of her legal naivete. In short, they are scum seeking bottom dwellers. Tripp should be made to pay Monica for any selling of the tapes of private conversations. She should be sued for invasion of privacy and entrapment as well as violating the Maryland wiretap laws. Anything short of that will send a clear signal that this kind of behavior is profitable and acceptable. Tripp should not be allowed to profit from the selling of information gathered in violation of the law. Starr and the FBI come off as immoral scum whose actions of entrapment and invasion of personal privacy pose a threat to every American although they may be legal. There has been a steady eroison of individual liberties in this country and this matter further accelerates that eroison of liberty. There is ample precedent for this view of the FBI in the King and many other operations. It is also very clear that those who were predisposed to disliking Bill Clinton for personal, moral, religious or political reasons are cheering his problems and supporting the notion that it is OK to do anything to get him. They will pay an enormous price for nuturing this type of vendatta against a sitting President. But so will the rest of us. Those who support him are overlooking his character flaws and do not support the ceaseless efforts to get him on anything possible. Thirty million dollars has been spent so far on investigating his affairs. It is a ridiculous amount of money. Now it looks like another 30 M will be spent. There are rare few people in this country who have not lied and broken the law. This includes the FBI and Starr. When the dust settles, Clinton will be further tarnished, he might resign if he is tired of the constant assaults, or he might stick it out until he gets out of office in another two years. He is not going to jail. Nixon did not got ot jail for more serious infractions. Also, Reagan did not go to jail for his complicity in his "gates".The country will have gained nothing of value from this disgusting matter. The loss will be a prurient distraction from the important foriegn and domestic affairs. More seriously, we will have further accelerated the eroison of individual rights in this country. The world sees our judicial system as as a farce after the OJ trials and the now the attempt to get hte president on his sexual dalliances. Clinton judgments appears to be very good in the matters of government operations. He deserves credit for the successes of his administration and he must take responsibility for its failures. I have found this interchange to be useful in that it has revealed the primary motives behind the views expressed on this thread and perhaps more widely held. However, I doubt if I will be discussing this matter further as I have other matters to attend to. I do not not like what I have seen here, but I do like to see. This is my opinion....