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Politics : Did Slick Boink Monica? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 5:01:00 PM
From: epicure  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20981
 
I don't believe in morality, I think it is all relative. And I like the death penalty, and accept that mistakes will be made.



To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 5:23:00 PM
From: Hunter Vann  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 20981
 
>>I have no faith in the justice system from personal experience. And I say it is WRONG
to execute one innocent person to get back at the other 99 who are guilty. Such a
system is immoral and must be destroyed. Public opnion be damned<<
Have to disagree. In an imperfect world, citizens are required to take certain risks in exchange for relative safety. One has to remember, far, far more innocent lives have been taken by convicted murders than innocent people mistakenly executed. Every institution that is of great benefit to society always contain risks so that we may enjoy a better world. The death penalty happens to be the least dangerous of them, yet it is focused on with the most paranoia.
In war, innocent people are killed quite frequently. Didn't seem to hinder the United States in its battles over the years. Numerous people have a tendency to treat enourmous human death tolls as though they were less tragic than smaller onces.



To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 5:56:00 PM
From: Janice Shell  Respond to of 20981
 
And I say it is WRONG to execute one innocent person to get back at the other 99 who are guilty.

For once I agree with you wholeheartedly, Ter.



To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 6:28:00 PM
From: Sawdusty  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20981
 
"If the death penalty were perfect: say truth drug induced confession, then I might
support it. But having been involved with the "justice" system on several occassions I
can tell you I would never trust my life to twelve yokels swayed by emotion, a
silver-tongued politically hungry prosecutor, or a process that is breaking down right
before our eyes."

Right on Terrence. If the twelve yokels were always right I would suspect that OJ would not be golfing every day.



To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 6:54:00 PM
From: Hunter Vann  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 20981
 
>>I personally believe that all people who support the death penalty have no regard for
the sanctity of the innocent individual. There ARE innocents on death row -- over 10
were proven innocent in just the last few years, at least one after two stays of
execution. It has been proven that innocents were gassed, electrocuted, hung or shot
in the past.<<

The most significant study conducted to evaluate the evidence of the "innocent executed" is the
Bedau-Radelet Study ("Miscarriages of Justice in Potentially Capital Cases," 40, 1 Stanford Law
Review, 11/87). The study concluded that 23 innocent persons had been executed since 1900.
However, the study's methodology was so flawed that at least 12 of those cases had no evidence of
innocence and substantial evidence of guilt. Bedau & Radelet, both opponents, "consistently presented
incomplete and misleading accounts of the evidence." (Markman, Stephen J. & Cassell, Paul G.,
"Protecting the Innocent: A Response to the Bedau-Radelet Study" 41, 1 Stanford Law Review,
11/88). The remaining 11 cases represent 0.14% of the 7,800 executions which have taken place since
1900. And, there is, in fact, no proof that those 11 executed were innocent. In addition, the "innocents
executed" group was extracted from a Bedau & Radelet imagined pool of 350 persons who were,
supposedly, wrongly convicted of capital or "potentially" capital crimes. Not only were they at least
50% in error with their 23 "innocents executed" claim, but 211 of those 350 cases, or 60%, were not
sentenced to death. Bedau and Radelet already knew that plea bargains, the juries, the evidence, the
prosecutors, judicial review and/or the legal statutes had put these crimes in the "no capital punishment"
category. Indeed, their claims of innocence, regarding the remaining 139 of those 350 cases, should be
suspect, given this study's poor level of accuracy. Calling their work misleading hardly does this
"academic" study justice. Had a high school student presented such a report, where 50-60% of the
material was either false or misleading, a grade of F would be a likely result.

Indeed, Michigan Court of Appeals Judge Stephen Markman finds that " . . . the Bedau-Radelet study
is remarkable not (as retired Supreme Court Judge Harry Blackmun seems to believe) for
demonstrating that mistakes involving the death penalty are common, but rather for demonstrating how
uncommon they are . . . This study - the most thorough and painstaking analysis ever on the subject -
fails to prove that a single such mistake has occurred in the United States during the twentieth
century." Presumably, Bedau and Radelet would have selected the most compelling 23 cases of the
innocent executed to prove their proposition. "Yet, in each of these cases, where there is a record to
review, there are eyewitnesses, confessions, physical evidence and circumstantial evidence in support
of the defendant's guilt. Bedau has written elsewhere that it is 'false sentimentality to argue that the
death penalty ought to be abolished because of the abstract possibility that an innocent person might be
executed when the record fails to disclose that such cases exist.' . . . (T)he Bedau and Radelet study .
. . speaks eloquently about the extraordinary rarity of error in capital punishment."("Innocents on Death
Row?", National Review, September 12, 1994).

Another significant oversight by that study was not differentiating between the risk of executing
innocent persons before and after Furman v Georgia (1972). There is, in fact, no proof that an innocent
has been executed since 1900. And the probability of such a tragedy occurring has been lowered
significantly more since Furman. In the context that hundreds of thousands of innocents have been
murdered or seriously injured, since 1900, by criminals improperly released by the U.S. criminal justice
system (or not incarcerated at all!), the relevant question is: Is the risk of executing the innocent,
however slight, worth the justifications for the death penalty - those being retribution, rehabilitation,
incapacitation, required punishment, deterrence, escalating punishments, religious mandates, cost
savings, the moral imperative, just punishment and the saving of innocent lives?

Predictably, opponents still continue to fraudulently claim, even today*, that this study has proven that
23 "innocent" people have been executed, even though Bedau and Radelet, the authors of that study,
conceded - in 1988 - that neither they nor any previous researchers have proved that any of those
executed was innocent: "We agree with our critics that we have not proved these executed defendants
to be innocent; we never claimed that we had." (41, 1 Stanford Law Review, 11/1988).



To: Father Terrence who wrote (4249)2/2/1998 7:49:00 PM
From: Ish  Respond to of 20981
 
Father Terrence,

I have read many of your posts. In Illinois we recently injected two, that brings the total to 12 executed and 11 found innocent through DNA matches that were on death row since the death penalty was reinstated here.

I am for the death penalty but do it quick. The person you kill ten or more years down the river of life is not the same person that did the crime. Also seperate the public defender from the states attorney's office and let the defence spend as much as the states attorney. And hey, in keeping with either the New Testament or a belief in fairness lets not make this a won/loss for the attorneys deal.

Bill