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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TobagoJack who wrote (170038)	3/30/2021 8:13:33 PM
From: sense	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 217617

Experience in the west is that hydrogen fuel cell has always been a "better" technology that makes perfect sense, except for in implementation... it has been the gallium arsenide of alternative energy to the silicon of photovoltaics and wind... always better but never less expensive or easier to get done right. As the problems in fuel cells have been conquered... it makes sense they'd start to work their way to the market, but the issue is still more about the economic argument... not just as cost-price at a point in time, but as an issues in the relative pace of and limits in potential for improvement compared to the alternatives. I haven't studied it enough in recent years to have a useful opinion re probabilities of success and % market penetration in competition... But, while it probably doesn't have to succeed wildly in order to have an impact... the question about the impact it might have on platinum or PGE's is a different one... as catalytic converters in internal combustion give way to alternatives... what's the impact on the amount of PGE's needed ? Will fuel cells use more PGE's than catalytic converters do now ? Or, is the impact more element specific... needing more Pt and less Pd ? I don't have the answers... but I see those are questions that need answering to be able to project reasonable future demand curves.

To: TobagoJack who wrote (170038)	3/30/2021 8:38:05 PM
From: gg cox	2 Recommendations Recommended By pak73 Pogeu Mahone Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 217617

Big ideas, years of planning and staging, years of experimenting do not change the facts on hydrogen. It has to be made by human know how, requiring more energy than you get from it ,four or five times more. Why are there just a few hundred kilometres of hydrogen pipelines in China? Because stainless steel is required for the pipe at 3 times the cost of nat gas pipe. Same story around the world ,compared to nat gas pipelines. Check and see how many hundreds of thousands of miles there are of those. There are proposals to mix hydrogen with natural gas in pipelines,, would they homogenize easily? If the flow was stopped temporarily,, would hydrogen separate , rise to the top and start it’s evil work of embrittlement on the steel pipe..leaking? More demand for electricity,, the old fashioned way than ever before,, terawatts for Bitcoin, all cryptos, electric transportation, devices, lights ,heat and cooling,,, why waste it at EROEI,, put 4 energy units in to get only one out... folly. A higher being is required to change the properties of hydrogen. “”China hydrogen plan”” the same as all other hydrogen plans,, it takes more energy to produce than what you get therefore “Green Hydrogen “” is folly again, because you get to keep what you already have.