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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: carranza2 who wrote (761884)	4/23/2022 7:35:05 PM
From: didjuneau	1 Recommendation Recommended By Neeka Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793717

I especially liked this line in your post. We do not have a monopoly on virtue, and every time we cloak ourselves in it to support this or that cause, bad shit seems to happen. I had a variant of that here: Message 33793777 Because we're righteous and they're not? It can become a powerful propaganda tool for the falsely virtuous to achieve an end that isn't. I should have added it to my list. Message 33813688 I'm trying very hard to reserve judgment on what's false and what's true in that department, but I know that the terms of The Contract are getting stretched way beyond what we agreed. But hey, James Comey thinks he's following the guidance of Reinhold Neibuhr! web.archive.org

To: carranza2 who wrote (761884)	4/23/2022 9:02:22 PM
From: greenspirit	Respond to of 793717

Bad shit happens whether we get involved or not. Bad shit often happens because when we don’t get involved. Bad shit probably happened because we did virtually nothing of significance toward Russia when they attacked Ukraine and took over Crimea. With Biden and company in the White House, getting involved beyond sending weapons and humanitarian support would be nuts. Never have such a deep bench of incompetent fools been assembled to manage our government before. All we can hope for is Russia being punished enough for their aggression, they will think twice before expanding it. I for one would hate to see them invade a member of NATO, triggering an Article 5 response. I think that’s the biggest threat. Ukraine used to have the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, but gave it up under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum in exchange for security assurances from the U.K, US and the Russian Federation. Well, we know how Russia follows agreements! I hope things calm down long enough for us to come to our senses and get out of NATO. Eventually, a country in bloodthirsty Europe will attack a member of NATO. That’s when nuclear war is probable. Today in Ukraine, it’s just saber rattling. I doubt Putin wants nuclear fallout raining down on Moscow via the winds.

To: carranza2 who wrote (761884)	4/24/2022 9:31:43 PM
From: THE WATSONYOUTH	3 Recommendations Recommended By greenspirit John Koligman steve harris Respond to of 793717

We have forgotten how to let others sort out their own problems. If that means letting Russia and Ukraine duke it out, so be it. But to promote the conflict by having NATO invite Georgia and Ukraine to join it in 2008 was beyond stupid. ...we are letting them duke it out....2008?....well it is now 2022 and neither Georgia or Ukraine are in NATO.....how about that.........but you know where Russia is now in 2022 ??.....In Ukraine..............there are Russians all over the world....they can't get out of that place soon enough.......so do we let Putin reconstitute the entire Soviet Union in the name of saving Russians?...........well then what's next?.....the Russkies land on Coney Island to free all those oppressed expats in Brighton Beach?.................as I see it, Putin's goals had not much to do with caring for the Russians in the Donbas....If the Donbas was the issue, why did he also invade out of Crimea and head WEST toward Odessa and why did he attempt to encircle Kiev........ .as I've pointed out all before...he just used that as an excuse to achieve his real goals.........water for Crimea, coal and minerals in the Donbas, seaports, oil and gas off the southern Ukrainian coast in the Black Sea and a path for gas pipeline to southern Europe....would make Putin the energy czar of the world............all... except for those dam Ukrainians

To: carranza2 who wrote (761884)	4/24/2022 9:55:55 PM
From: THE WATSONYOUTH	2 Recommendations Recommended By John Koligman steve harris Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793717

Are we ready, as Mearsheimer suggests, to have the Russians be forced to use tactical nukes in Ukraine? .......what are you saying?.......because Putin MIGHT be stopped from his goals in Ukraine by an unexpected resourceful Ukrainian defense.....that result forces Putin to use tactical nukes.... and therefore we must stand by and allow him to attain his goals..... because otherwise Putin MIGHT escalate further??..........Tell me what exactly are Putin's goals?.....I say before I abandon the Ukrainians, I need to know exactly what are Putin's goals......so what are they carranza2?.....be specific.......I gots to know. .....note the time line Message 33800235 April 13 Message 33801979 April 15 Message 33806259 April 18 Friday 22 APRIL 2022, 11:44 https://mind.ua/en/news/20240166-the-russian-defense-ministry-named-the-goals-of-the-second-phase-of-the-special-operation-in-ukrai Quote. “Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, which began just two days ago, one of the tasks of the russian army is to establish full control over Donbass and southern Ukraine. It will allow us to provide a land corridor to the Crimea, and also to influence vital objects of the Ukrainian economy,” minnekayev declared. theguardian.com Russian commander suggests plan is for permanent occupation of south Ukraine Rustam Minnekayev speaks of aim for land corridor to Crimea, despite Putin’s earlier claims despite already having a connection to Crimea (4 vehicle lanes / 2 train tracks ) goo.gl FRIDAY, APR 22, 2022 - 12:00 PM zerohedge.com Following up on earlier pronouncements that Russia will "liberate" the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, Russia's military now says it aims to seize the whole of the south as well. The New York Times has reported the Friday statement of a Russian senior military commander, Gen. Rustam Minnekayev, as saying the aim is to take "full control of the Donbas and southern Ukraine." The Russian commander in the Friday statements confirmed that the military plans to establish a land corridor linking up Crimea and the Donbas. But the fight for Ukraine's south figures heavily into this, according to Gen. Minnekayev: And in a line that will be concerning to Chi?inau, he is also reported to have said that control of Ukraine’s south will give Russia another gateway to Moldova’s breakaway region of Transnistria. “Control over the south of Ukraine is another way to Transnistria, where there is also evidence that the Russian-speaking population is being oppressed,” Tass quoted Minnekayev as saying at a meeting in Russia’s central Sverdlovsk region. This puts Odesa in the crosshairs, which is home to Ukraine's navy, and which has so far largely escaped direct heavy attack. April 23 dailymail.co.uk Eight people including three-month-old baby are killed as Putin blitzes Odessa with cruise missiles https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=33814189 April 24...here skinowski FINALLY does the grand pivot with his "revelation." "My best guess - at this point, after expending so much blood and treasure - and angering half of the world - the Russians will not settle for their original demands. They will want Donbas and the territories along the South." ......well duh