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Technology Stocks : BORL: Time to BUY! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: John who wrote (9076)	2/11/1998 1:28:00 PM
From: shane forbes	Respond to of 10836

JBuilder does not crash for me. You are right the help system is poor. (But you can double click the class name in the left lower pane and your are taken to the source code with all the class members shown.) BCB makes up for that compiling issue in too many other ways that are well worth the price exacted. Also it is only the 1st compile that is affected. After that it is pretty fast. I have BCB 1.0 (of course here if you use the std. libraries by Rogue Wave (I think) you are toasted because the compiler can't precompile those headers for some reason.) Heck take a break when it's compiling!!! That was a funny stunt by MSFT but as usual shows no class by them. Bullies and arrogant a**holes they will always be. Overall I like JBuilder. The 2nd version (called 3.0?) will be better.

To: John who wrote (9076)	2/11/1998 1:37:00 PM
From: Mark Bracey	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10836

I was also horrified to hear that C++ Builder puts up a modal dialog when compiling - there is no excuse for that. The C++ project I work on has 180 modules and takes about 4 minutes to compile (VC++, 300Mhz machine with 128MB RAM). I fix errors as they popup during a compile while the rest of the project continues to compile - I don't just sit around for 4 minutes and wait - BORL should be shot for this mistake. Have you actually used C++Builder? Do you change all 180 modules and header files in your project at once. C++Builder caches the header files so they are precompiled. Once you have done a complete build, a rebuild with your machine should take seconds. Well, maybe not seconds, but fast.

To: John who wrote (9076)	2/11/1998 3:00:00 PM
From: Kashish King	Respond to of 10836

Has anyone here actually bought JBuilder and tried to use it for a real project??? I have been using it for several weeks, and have not been impressed. JBuilder crashes frequently, furthermore, it does not save files when it compiles, so if you are not careful to contently save your changes, you lose your current changes if JBuilder dies while debugging. Thanks, we have it and we're going to evaluate it against Visual Cafe but we're not using either right now. I am disappointed that BORL still doesn't grasp what quality products are all about but we'll give it a fair shot. BORL's strength is not going to be in retail compilers and anybody investing in it for that reason is just kidding themselves. They can make a pile selling middleware and mediocre tools to the Enterprise. I was also horrified to hear that C++ Builder puts up a modal dialog when compiling - there is no excuse for that. Right, we are talking about fundamental, entry-level design skills required for development on all known operating systems for the last twenty years, save one: MS-DOS. Even there, you would expect those designing applications or tools to use a normal design approach and then work around the toy features of DOS.

To: John who wrote (9076)	2/11/1998 4:40:00 PM
From: Bipin Prasad	Respond to of 10836

>> Has anyone here actually bought JBuilder and tried to use it for a >> real project??? I have been using it for several weeks, and have >> not been impressed. JBuilder crashes frequently, furthermore, it >> does not save files when it compiles, so if you are >> not careful to contently save your changes, you lose your >> current changes if JBuilder dies while debugging. I have been using JBuilder on real project. I have not had this problem of frequent crashes. It is more likely that the created program may be malfunctioning. Borland products (including the C++ compiler) do not save files when you compile (unless you change the default options). It is useful when you get used to it. You can compile, run the program and then save. Microsoft always saves all files upon a compile. It depends on what you get used to. In Borland C++ compiler, select environment option and set the build process to "Asynchronous" to avoid modal dialog and check the "beep on completion" and uncheck the "do not save files" in debugger behavior (environment options). JBuilder could use a similar option. Although in JBuilder under file menu, you do have a "Save All" option. >> I have been working in VC++ since it first came out and I see some >> basic things convenient things that VC++ has that are lacking in >> JBuilder. I am very use to putting the cursor on a class name in >> the code and pressing F1 to pull up the help for the class, >> this can't be done in JBuilder While F1 does not work the same way as in VC++. F1 would be useful in JBuilder. However, another far more powerful option brings up the source code for the class (right mouse click, "Browse symbol"). The project frame then allows you to navigate back and forth. Extremely handy. I use it all the time. >> I was also horrified to hear that C++ Builder puts up a modal >> dialog when compiling. I wonder if the new release of C++ Builder has the asynchronous compile option like the Borland C++ 5.02 compiler ? Bipin Prasad