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Politics : Did Slick Boink Monica? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (7083)	2/15/1998 9:14:00 PM
From: George Coyne	Respond to of 20981

<< Well I wonder what kind of responses I'll get from this post. <gg> >> 40 % Thumbs up; 60% Thumbs down. G. W.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (7083)	2/15/1998 9:28:00 PM
From: alan w	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20981

Hi Bob, The purpose in calling Monica's mom in was to get an insight to Monica. She has claimed a very extraordinary thing about our president. What better person to question. I guess they could have called Michael Jordan in, but he doesn't know anything about the subject. Monica's mom probably does. Two days of questioning isn't running a marathon. Sounds like a play for sympathy to me. Give Starr a little credit for asking pertinent people about this deal. In your own words Cya. By the way, I agree with the first part of your post. alan w

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (7083)	2/15/1998 10:11:00 PM
From: Zoltan!	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20981

>>But it already looks like the threats are working because even the press is back pedaling and trying to refocus. Starr has blown it when he put Monica's mom through the ringer. America didn't like hearing she was in agony for two days and needed medical attention and at one time couldn't even walk. That is criminal tactics to make a case not on facts but on coerced testimony. The above is absolute, total nonsense - that's either nutz or delusional at best. 70% now say Starr should stay on the job, only 17% want him fired and threats won't deter him from his job. According to the tapes, Monica's mom tried to suborn perjury too. Obviously, Monica's mom was doing a little acting - anything to avoid the truth. The methods Starr employed to get at the truth are not unusual at all and should be applauded by serious people. >>They should all face the same scrutiny. Why? Were they all obstructing justice? Were they all suborning perjury? Your guys had another bad day on the Sunday shows and 60 Minutes did a good job on Vernon Jordon tonight. People are starting to add things up and that ain't good for the Clintons. Thank you Starr.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (7083)	2/16/1998 6:56:00 AM
From: Jack Clarke	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20981

Bob, Without getting into the religious aspects of your post, which would be better discussed on another thread, I'll make some comments and expand on some of your statements: First, I think you are mixing up Psychology and Psychiatry. Psychology is the study of mind and behavior, and theoretically is a "purer" science. Psychiatry, on the other hand, is a branch of Medicine which diagnoses and treats mental and behavioral disorders. A Psychiatrist is an M.D, whereas a Psychologist may have a degree in Psychology, or a Master's or a PhD, and therefore use the title "Doctor" but is not a physician, as is the psychiatrist. Some psychologists do indeed do psychotherapy, but cannot prescribe drugs. I think the Psychiatrists are tending to use more drug therapy because "it works", and the current thinking is that many disorders are "chemical imbalances" in neurotransmitters in the brain. They don't spend a lot of time in "analysis" or figuring out what childhood experiences might have molded you the way you are. It's analogous to a surgeon's taking out your gallbladder for stones, and not caring a lot why those stones got there. Sigmund Freud was a psychiatrist and experimented with cocaine. He found, not surprisingly, that it was great for depression, a very real and dangerous disorder. He didn't realize at first that the cure was worse than the disease. The father of modern surgery, William Halstead, of Johns Hopkins, also got hooked on cocaine, apparently innocently while experimenting with it. (It was the first local anesthetic and commonly used for this purpose even into the 60s.) Halstead was able to get off cocaine, but I believe he continued to use morphine for the rest of his days. With regard to Monica's Mom's being put through the wringer, that's our system. Another poster's mention of the infamous IRS audit was right on course as well. If you have ever been the defendant in a lawsuit (as I have), you will appreciate Kafka's novel The Trial and know what that adjective Kafkaesque really means. With regard to coerced testimony, no one is forced to testify against himself (fifth amendment). You are required to testify honestly about your knowledge of others' crimes. Also, if you are given immunity and cannot be prosecuted, you are required to testify. This is why Susan McDougal is in jail. All she had to do to avoid jail was testify under oath. It is a canard to say that she is in jail because she won't give the answer Starr wants; all she has to do is testify under oath, and she won't. When you refuse to testify when it cannot possibly cause you any harm (at least no harm from the law), you are in contempt of court. So Ms. McDougal is either "falling on the sword" for Mr. Clinton, or she is afraid than harm will come to her or her loved ones from sources other than the legal system. There are no other possibilities I can conceive of. George Stephanopolous said the the White House wouldn't go down alone, meaning that all the dirt on congressmen and senators will be let out into the light if Mr. Clinton's misbehavior is pursued. Indeed, it was a brilliant stroke of Machiavellian genius to get those 900 FBI files almost as soon as he got into the White House. What an insurance policy! This is the real reason he will not be impeached. "Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." (Thomas Jefferson). Jack

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (7083)	2/16/1998 12:40:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20981

Oh, gee, Bob, you have already gotten several interesting answers to your post! I would agree with everyone who said that Monica's mother was doing a lot of good acting when she went before the grand jury. I have said from the beginning, actually, that one of the reasons Monica seems so misguided and makes such unhealthy choices in her life is because she has a mother who implied that she had sex with an opera singer to sell more copies of the book she wrote, was a social climber in Los Angeles, dates MUCH older men, and seems to have mushy moral standards in general. I think it is difficult to grow up healthy in such an environment, where moral values are obviously skewed. Also, we have the implications from the Tripp tapes that her mother thought the strategy of Tripp injuring herself so she could not testify was "brilliant" from a telephone conversation where her mother is on call waiting. This may imply active participation in obstruction of justice. One of the issues discussed on one of the Sunday news programs yesterday was the possible strategy of the White House defaming the Starr investigation to the extent that Billy could eventually refuse to testify, saying that it was all just a witch hunt. You can see this strategy unfolding now. What I think is sad is the degree to which that huge majority of the American public which listens to two sound bites a day for their entire news, is buying into this spin. As far as the God stuff goes, I am not religious at all, and this is not a religious thread, so I guess all I will say about it is that I think everyone is born with the potential of being very healthy and very happy, and not born in sin at all. Why would there be a God who would construct a world like that? It sounds very dark and punitive to me. I also believe that children develop into healthy human beings without addictions--which are basically pain-killing behaviors--if they are given plenty of love and acceptance and encouragement, and are never, ever hit by their parents, which only teaches violence as a way to solve problems. Sexual addiction is compulsive disorder that would be a less than surprising outcome in a child like Billy who lost his father before he was born, was separated from his mother for a long time during his early childhood, and then endured a stepfather who was an alcoholic and beat his mother. This is a man who cannot stand to be alone, and according to his biographers has a very limited capacity for romantic love, but who is always seeking some connection, over and over again. That sounds like a destructive pattern of behavior to me. The fact that sexual addiction is a recognized emotional illness does not excuse the president's behavior in my mind, however--if he is a sex addict, there is effective therapy available. The president is obviously a churchgoer, and that has not in any solved the problem. We should probably just agree to disagree on this, since I don't think either one of us will end up converted to the other's point of view, and it can be really divisive to argue about it!! Christine