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Technology Stocks : Cymer (CYMI) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Matt Webster who wrote (14809)2/18/1998 6:38:00 PM
From: sepku  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25960
 
>>>The longer we sit here in the 20's, the more I think CYMI is not a monopolist, that there are substitutes readily available<<<

If this is the case, then where are the substitutes and what are the signs that they are being widely implemented on the scale of DUV?

Style Pts.



To: Matt Webster who wrote (14809)2/18/1998 6:40:00 PM
From: TideGlider  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25960
 
Matt: I believe Cymer is a valuable company and would be a valuable addition to any of the large corps you mentioned.

The value of CYMI lasers must be critical to some semi fabs as they wish to reduce size, increase speed and reduce cost of production.

I have often wondered what agreements with Canon, Nikon and the others that would cause problems for a merger. Surely any one of the customers could purchase CYMER. More difficult for some than others.

A purchase buy AMAT or another that doesn't use CYMER lasers would put a certain strain on sales to such a purchaser's competitors.

TG



To: Matt Webster who wrote (14809)2/18/1998 6:56:00 PM
From: WTSherman  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25960
 
Matt, since you suggest that should AMAT, IBM, et al, take over CYMI they would have a MONOPOLY position in the market...I think any other explanation might be that someone like like AMAT thinks that DOJ wouldn't let the whole deal fly. If DOJ would go to the effort of stop or modify the IBM/STK oem relationship over mainframe storage(when EMC has almost 60% market share) can you imagine their reaction to a real MONOPOLY!!!

Also, Canon would never attempt to purchase such a high profile U.S. technology leader. It would immediately raise the issue of the "off limits" nature of Japanese companies to American takeover.



To: Matt Webster who wrote (14809)2/18/1998 7:10:00 PM
From: slob  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 25960
 
Matt, From my perspective CYMI might have a MONOPOLY but what use is this when you only have one or two possible customers. Lets face it this is a critical building block for a 0.18u stepper but it's just one critical part in a large system. From my experience it is very difficult to be profitable supplying one part for a single customers system, the system guy always has the greatest price level, so if you want to ship parts you met his price.

Anyway thats my opinion and the reason that I have avoided buying CYMI.

Slob



To: Matt Webster who wrote (14809)2/19/1998 12:28:00 AM
From: Tulvio Durand  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 25960
 
All these questions have been asked and answered several times, and, it would appear, you haven't taken the time to investigate. Here are the basic facts presented in the same numerical order as your questions. (1) Cymer's DUV is the lithographic light source of choice for printing sub 0.25 critical dimensions. There is no other technology like software or networking (that you suggest) that will supplant it. (2) The technology is quite apparent to IBM, et al, and not to just us geniuses. It is very well established and accepted worldwide. (3) The demand for 0.25 micron tools is accelerating and now accounts for about 50% of all new stepper tools being purchased today. (4) There are substitutes for Cymer's products. One can buy DUV excimer lasers from Komatsu and Lambda Physik. A couple of dozen lasers have been delivered by those two sources for development type application. But because of superior reliability and throughput of Cymer's products all chip makers, to date, have specified only Cymer DUV lasers be installed in the production stepper tools delivered to them. (5) The major stepper manufacturers, Nikon, Canon, and ASM have colluded and decided to not start a bidding war over access to CYMI intellectual property. They each invested in 10% ownership of Cymer. Your other arguments are specious, but I wiil address them anyway: -- Cymer monopoly? No different than Intel or Microsoft. Do the latter have monopolies? Bill Gates would say there's Oracle et al. Andy Grove would say there's AMD et al. Bob Akins would say there's Komatsu and Lambda Physik. -- Could we have better research than IBM? IBM is researching some potential competing technologies like XRL. But so is Cymer researching next generation products (including XRL). -- Stepper customers not ordering 0.25 equipment exclusively? That's correct. They are ordering about 50% DUV and 50% i-line tools. And the ratio is shifting dramatically towards DUV tools. 0.25 micron demand IS explosive. Just read a few hundred posts on this thread and you will get the idea. -- Is there a substitute? Yes. There's Komatsu and Lambda Physik. Also there's XRL and a few other technologies knocking on the door by year 2010. -- Is there a cartel? Yes. Four customers call the shots. As explained earlier each of three has a vested interest. But it is the end user (chip maker) that specifies which DUV laser it wants installed in the tools they buy. -- Monopoly power? Hardly. Cymer provides the end user with the best available technology, best throughput, best reliability, best support, (but maybe not the cheapest price). That, my friend, is called free enterprise. Regards, Tulvio