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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (18610)	3/15/1998 7:26:00 PM
From: James R. Barrett	Respond to of 108807

I read that article about the poor, sick, misunderstood alcoholic who allegedly beat the gay man to death with his fists. What a tragedy. Mr. Mora (the alcoholic) must surely come from a broken home. I'm sure he did'nt mean to kill the gay man. In his drunken rage he probably thought he was beating up his father who probably deserted him when he was a young child. The poor man should be getting our sympathy not our hatred. He has feelings too. I'm ashamed of the San Francisco gay community for wanting revenge on this man who was most likely abused as a child which means he was not responsible for what he did. He probably grew up in the slums and had to fight for every piece of bread he has ever eaten. Prison won't help Mr. Mora, counseling will. The state of CA should enroll him in the Betty Ford Clinic for two years and then give him two more years of intensive psychiatric therapy. He will then be a model citizen and a respected member of the community like the rest of us. See, this tragic story can have a happy ending if the gay community stops hating gay bashers and becomes sensitive to their feelings. Remember, there is some good in everyone no matter how bad they appear to be.......even killers. Remember it was'nt Mr. Mora's fault, it was our fault, society's fault. We let Mr. Mora down when he needed us the most. How sad. Jim

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (18610)	3/15/1998 10:29:00 PM
From: Ignacio Mosqueira	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Jane I have a story to share with you of such unmitigated depravity that perhaps you will find it fun, who knows? I hope so in any case. This story concerns me and it took place when I was 8 years old. Just imagine -- so young and already as sinful and tainted as they come. You see when I was young enough to be allowed into female and male change rooms alike I begun to develop what was an unmistakable fondness for hanging out (quit literally) with showering females. I had not yet developed a sense of guilt so I was quite shameless with my intrusions. Soon I became well known and received very nice treatment by almost all the women. In fact I felt so welcome that I started to neglect other activities in favor of constant cleanliness and grooming. Needless to say this was not a natural tendency in me. Once in while I would be privy to a truly salacious moment but for the most part it was curiosity of the female form that drove me there. I have looked with a sense of loss the time at which the local gathering decided that I was much too grown for such antics. Even then I would sneak in aided by a woman whose company I enjoyed best. I learned many tid-bits from her. Obviously this experience does not qualify as traumatic in any way, but I ask myself if the same would have been true should my predilection taken me to the male side. In a strange way I suppose I should think myself lucky. Do you see my point?

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (18610)	3/16/1998 12:11:00 AM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Jane, you obviously did not really read the two articles I url'ed you about this hate crime. While it is true that the murderer hit someone at a bus stop across the street first, he was raging on about homosexuals. He jumped out of his car in front of the gay club. I think he was just getting started with the guy in the bus stop, warming up, you know, but in fact it has been classified as a hate crime against homosexuals, the suspect was railing on about homosexuals, and also the guy is in custody, which is my first clue that while you may have simply glanced at the articles, you did so with very preconceived notions, and did not actually absorb the information. Incidentally, are you saying that if the man LOOKED homosexual, then he deserved to die? Is that a little like asking to be raped or something? Your logic fails me. Could you clarify what you meant? If there is one thing I have consistently noticed about ideologically zealous people, it is that they have one very firm view of the way reality is, and spend a lot of energy compartmentalizing, and blocking any data that does not fit their particular view. You wouldn't possibly be doing any of that, would you, Jane? You clearly say you are not, and that anyone calling this a homophobic hate crime would be, but I think the opposite. I am curious as to whether you, or someone else close to you, was a crime victim or something. You seem to have a little bit of a preoccupation with evil forces trying to get you or others, and then they get away with it. That is intriguing to me, but it is a little personal, also, and you certainly do not have to answer the question if you don't feel comfortable. Christine