Dwight, I am not going to waste very much energy responding to your post, because your tone is angry and sarcastic, besides which you selectively pulled little bits of my post to Nancy and twisted them to suit your own ends. But I would not want you to assume that I agree with you, so I will answer it briefly. I don't wish to shout, but I had to capitalize my responses to differentiate them from your comments.
I have noticed some of these hate mongers on the Web when I have done
research on religious topics, and they make me sick, quite frankly.
That figures that that hate mongers would show up when you do religious searches.
What does that tell us? I hope I don't have to spell it out.
I THINK YOU DO NEED TO SPELL IT OUT, BECAUSE YOUR INSINUATION IS LOST ON ME. SPECIFICALLY, I AM TALKING ABOUT THE POLITICS OF HATRED AND INTOLERANCE. HERE ARE A COUPLE OF INTERESTING EXAMPLES OF THE KINDS OF THINGS I AM SICKENED BY ON THE WEB:
spunky.paranoia.com
splcenter.org
parascope.com
rickross.com
personalwebs.myriad.net
bible-infonet.org
What it is, I think, is that in most religions there are groups of very polarized
conservatives within that belief system who have decided that their way is the
One True Way, and that everyone else is evil, or at least lost and ignorant,
who does not believe the same way.
Oh. I see. Does it bother you, Christine, that a Jew may see you as "lost" (as in
spiritually lost, according to the religious beliefs of a Jew), and ignorant (as in
ignorant of the beliefs that a Jew would have)? Or that a Muslim may consider a
Jew to be "lost" and ignorant? Or that a Buddist may consider a Christian to be lost
and ignorant? I'm sure there are many people of all sorts of religions who may
believe that I, for instance, may be lost, in the sense that I may not believe the same
things they do. I guess it's never occured to me before that some people might be
bothered by that.
WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE BUDDHISTS SEE ANYONE AS LOST. THEY ARE ABOUT ENLIGHTENMENT, NOT BRAINWASHING, AND MANY BUDDHISTS ARE ALSO PRACTICING JEWS, FOR EXAMPLE. IT IS NOT AN EXCLUSIONARY AND NARROWLY FOCUSED RELIGION.
AS LONG AS I AM NOT HURTING SOMEONE WITH HATRED, OR INFLUENCING PUBLIC POLICY REGARDING GROUPS LIKE HOMOSEXUALS--IN OTHER WORDS, AS LONG AS I AM NOT SOMEHOW INFLICTING PAIN ON PEOPLE--YOUR OPINION OF WHETHER I AM LOST IS UP TO YOU, AND I FRANKLY DO NOT CARE. BUT THE DEBATE AT ASK GOD, AND IN THIS SOCIETY, IS VERY UGLY, AND TO ME REFLECTS POORLY ON ALL THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO INSIST THAT THEIR RELIGION IS THE ONLY CORRECT ONE. THERE IS NO CORRECT RELIGION. IT IS ALL ABSOLUTELY UNPROVEN, IN THE REALM OF OPINION, MYTH, LEGEND AND MAGIC.
These radical conservatives within religions are the people who cause hatred
and violence in America, Northern Ireland, India, Israel and every other place
where there are religious wars of some sort going on.
Oh. Of course. The religious war in America. Like those Jonesboro, Arkansas
shootings, probably. Is that the war you mean? Silly me, I didn't realize there was a
religious war going on in America. But at any rate, I think it's clear that Christians
bear some responsibility there for those tragic deaths of those little girls. The boys
who did the shootings? Their parents probably didn't love them. But we can't punish
the boys for that. Those boys just need a lot of love and affection. They didn't know
what they were doing. Maybe they thought they were doing the bidding of what this
"largely Christian" society taught them to do. They should be made wards of the
State, and given private tutors and a free college education.
I THINK YOU DELIBERATELY TWISTED MY MEANING HERE. I WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THE MOST RESOLUTE, RADICAL, CONSERVATIVE AND OPINIONATED PEOPLE IN ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP OR SOCIETY TEND TO BECOME ITS MORE INTOLERANT FANATICS AND CONTINUE TO FAN RELIGIOUS WARS WHICH HURT AND KILL PEOPLE, ALL OVER THE WORLD. I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING REMOTELY CHRISTIAN, OR EVEN RELIGIOUS IN THE HIGHER MEANING OF THE WORD, ABOUT THIS DIVISIVENESS. SEE THE URLS ABOVE FOR THE RELIGIOUS WARS IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, IN PARTICULAR. JONESBORO OBVIOUSLY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.
Many of them are Christians, incidentally, although that does not have much
to do with anything.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. There're undoubtedly several conservative Christians
mixed in there with the other more tolerant ones. Watch your back when walking
around there.
I HAVE A CATHOLIC HUSBAND, AND MANY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS. WHAT THEY ALL HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT THEY ARE TOLERANT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT JUDGE OR LOOK DOWN UPON PEOPLE FROM OTHER RACES OR RELIGIONS, OR CONSIDER HOMOSEXUALITY A SINFUL STATE. IT IS INTOLERANCE AND IGNORANCE WHICH REPEL ME, NOT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE PER SE.
And all the Jewish statesmen of Israel until Netanyahu are admitted terrorists,
but they see themselves as freedom fighters because they see their position as
the morally defensible one.
Who could condone terrorism?
WELL, IN ONE WAY TERRORISM IS JUST A REALITY, ISN'T IT? ISRAEL BUILT ITS STATEHOOD ON TERRORISM, AND YET THE STATE STILL EXISTS, WITH ENORMOUS SUPPORT FROM AMERICAN TAXPAYERS AND US MILITARY. BUT IN ANOTHER SENSE, ANYONE WHO CONDONES THE EXISTENCE OF A STATE LIKE THAT WHERE ONE GROUP COMES IN AND STEALS A COUNTRY AWAY FROM ANOTHER GROUP, CONFISCATING ITS LAND AND PUTTING ITS PEOPLE INTO REFUGEE CAMPS, IS EXPRESSING SUPPPORT. I WISH THE JEWS COULD HAVE HAD A SAFE, SECURE AREA ON SOME CONTINENT WHERE THEY WERE FREE TO SETTLE, PERHAPS IN EUROPE AFTER WWII. STEALING PALESTINE FROM THE PALESTINIANS WAS NOT THE ANSWER, EVEN CONSIDERING THE HORROR OF THE HOLOCAUST. IT IS ACTING OUT ON ANOTHER PEOPLE THE SAME THING THAT WAS DONE TO YOU.
While I don't personally condone violence of any kind, we will have terrorists
until we examine the root causes of their struggle, and somehow remove the
inherent injustice. Terrorism is a natural reaction everywhere for groups who
have been hurt badly and feel powerless, and feel they have no alternatives to
get attention, or right the scales of justice.
Ohhh, okay. So you're saying the Statesmen of Israel prior to Netanyahu were
struggling against "the inherent injustice", which was the "root causes of their
struggle". And terrorism was the "natural reaction everywhere for groups who have
been hurt badly and feel powerless, and feel they have no alternatives to get
attention, or right the scales of justice.
I AM CLEARLY SAYING THAT THE PLO, AND TERRORISM IN GENERAL, ARE THE ONLY DEFENSE MECHANISMS OF GROUPS THAT HAVE BEEN BRUTALIZED. THE IRA IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE LIKE THE PLO, WHERE THEY LOST MUCH OF WHAT THEY HAD, BUT WERE STATELESS AND HAD NO ARMED FORCES. YOU WILL ALWAYS SEE TERRORIST GROUPS DEVELOPING IN CASES LIKE THAT. WHAT IS YOUR POINT, EXACTLY?
If you say so, Christine. So we should try to examine the injustices the Jews are
suffering from at the hands of the Arabs? Okay.
NO, I AM NOT SAYING THAT.AS FAR AS INJUSTICES IN ISRAEL, THE PALESTINIANS HAVE SUFFERED MANY MORE INJUSTICES. THE PLO IS A REACTIVE FORCE. I AM SAYING THERE NEEDED TO BE A DIFFERENT SOLUTION TO THE ISSUE OF A JEWISH HOMELAND. OR AT THIS POINT, THAT THE ISRAELIS NEED TO GIVE BACK PART OF THE LAND THEY TOOK, AND CREATE A SOCIETY WHERE PALESTINIANS HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS THAT JEWS DO. THE ISRAELIS ESSENTIALLY CREATED THE PLO, AND IF THEY BARGAIN IN GOOD FAITH, THE PROBLEM OF ANGRY ARABS WILL MOSTLY DISAPPEAR.
I firmly support full human rights for Jews everywhere in the world, and I
think they were treated horrendously by the Christians for hundreds of years.
Really? Wow. Like, where's the justice? I wonder if Clinton knows about this.
Maybe we could, for instance, bomb a few more German cities a few more times
until your righteous wrath is sated. How many more burning piles of German bodies
in the streets of cities that the USAF bombed will it take for your wrath to be
quenched?
YOUR COMMENTS HERE ARE REPULSIVE, DO NOT REPRESENT WHAT I SAID IN ANY WAY, BUT DO SHOW WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.
I think that much of the hatred of them here comes from very, very
conservative Christians who have misinterpreted the New Testament, and are
very narrow and judgmental, and full of hate. As I said before, I think that is
just awful.
Of course. That goes without saying. Some conservative Christians are probably
brought up by their religious parents to hate Jews. I haven't personally ever heard of
any, but then my circle of conservative Christians only covers about 10,000 people
in the US and Scandinavia. No doubt I'm sheltered.
YES, YOU ARE SHELTERED. AGAIN, READ THE URLS I PROVIDED ABOVE, OR WATCH THE DEBATE AT ASK GOD, WHERE THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARGUE CONSTANTLY WITH ABUNDANT VENOM, OR STUDY SOME OF THE STATISTICS ON HATE CRIMES AGAINST THE JEWS, OR ASK YOURSELF WHY THE POPE JUST APOLOGIZED FOR CATHOLIC WRONG DOINGS DURING THE HOLOCAUST, AND BECAUSE THE NEW TESTAMENT HAS BEEN MISINTERPRETED IN AN ANTI-SEMITIC WAY FOR SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS.
Wouldn't it be ironic if all the Christians who practice intolerance and hatred
and self-righteousness are actually on their way to Hell?
Yeah, that'd be funny!! Yuck yuck. Burn in hell, man.
IRONIC AND FUNNY HAVE DIFFERENT MEANINGS, DWIGHT. AGAIN, YOU HAVE MISQUOTED ME. MY POINT IS ONLY THAT THE CHRISTIANS SIMPLY BELIEVE THEY ARE GOING TO HEAVEN--NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA WHETHER IT EXISTS. IT SEEMS SHAMEFUL FOR SOME OF THEM TO DECIDE THAT OTHERS ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN, AND AGAIN, THAT DEBATE OCCURS EVERY DAY AT ASK GOD. I AM ALSO SAYING ONCE AGAIN THAT THIS BRAND OF CHRISTIANITY DOES NOT SEEM TO REFLECT THE TOLERANCE AND LOVING ACCEPTANCE JESUS EXHIBITED.
I think you and Emile have should have full religious freedom to believe
whatever you want,
Christine, that's very tolerant and generous of you, but the founding Fathers of the
United States of America already thought of that, and have GUARANTEED
religious freedom in the first issue mentioned in the Bill of Rights. So, like, it's
already taken care of.
WELL, I BELIEVE I HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS--TO FREEDOM FROM RELIGION. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IS BEING RESPECTED AT ALL WHEN I HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT GOD AT PUBLIC EVENTS OR SCHOOL COMMENCEMENTS, OR READ ABOUT HIM ON OUR PAPER MONEY. AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS INTOLERANT, IT DEPRIVES HOMOSEXUALS OF HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHTS. SO I DON'T BELIEVE WE ALL HAVE THE SAME FREEDOMS YET.
..but somehow the polarization and hurt on the planet have to stop, and
TOLERANCE seems to be where that starts.
Well, except tolerance towards conservative Christians, of course. Let's not get too
carried away with our liberal compassion.
I WILL DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS TO YOUR BELIEFS, BUT THIS IS A SECULAR SOCIETY. YOUR BELIEFS SHOULD NOT AFFECT WHAT MY CHILD IS TAUGHT IN SCHOOL SCIENCE OR SEX EDUCATION CLASSES, OR, AS I SAID, CREATE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS AND OTHER GROUPS WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR RELIGIOUS STANDARDS. |
