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Pastimes : SI Grammar and Spelling Lab -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wizzer who wrote (951)	3/30/1998 4:18:00 AM
From: AL RICE	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Wisam: You have written a sound critique of our thread. However, if you will read back through the mass of opinions and conclusions represented here, I believe you will find very few self proclaimed arbiters or dues paying members of the self appointed Polemic Police. Most, but not all, of the obnoxious posts decrying linguistic errors are made by people who would never post on this thread. You see, they seem to be bereft of the joy, albeit, at times, whimsical and capricious, that most of us receive from language. If you choose to return or to stay away it is of no great moment: unless by staying away you would deprive us the opportunity to share your verbal knowledge and skill. A long time ago a stooped and gnarled ancient Newfoundlander took time away from the work of painting his lobster boat and slowly, almost haltingly, in a wheezing, guttural, strange accent, shared with me, as a little boy, a truly profound bit of wisdom. It was an event of long ago: so long in fact, I have forgotten just what it was he said. Yet somehow I feel sure it would have been a fitting contribution to this note. Go ! Go and live among the joyous people of the world. Al

To: Wizzer who wrote (951)	3/30/1998 5:45:00 AM
From: Jack Clarke	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Wisam, Indeed you make a number of good points. Communication is, of course, the primary function of language. But like food, clothing and shelter, language may pass beyond the primary needs for purposes of enrichment. I suppose I'm trying to say that there may be some element of art in language. Let me comment on a few points in your post. I have taken this thread as an instrument of polite discussion by those who take an interest in language beyond simple communication, but I agree that the opening post is more critical and not so constructive. I personally don't correct anyone's English except on this thread, where, it seems, we are asking for it and take it in a constructive way. We all make typos when we are typing fast and trying to get off a post or two before going to work, etc. It would be small or petty to correct those things. Also, many posters on the Internet are not native speakers of English, and it would be rude to correct such a person. I have studied French all of my life, for example, but I still make many mistakes when I use that language. With regard to punctuation and spelling, I do feel we should use the rules whenever we can. It adds clarity, and I would offer the analogy of standard notation in mathematics, without which understanding would suffer. It is also clear that those of us who grew up in the pre-TV era have a distinct advantage, in that we read for pleasure in our free hours. There are some exceptions, but most young people will not have the vocabulary and stylistic skills which a fifty or sixty year old person may possess. And yes, the language is changing. Here's a simple example: We have the "politically correct" singular use of "their" whereas in the past the masculine pronoun was used with some implied insult to our honored females. My answering service gives me the following message: "Your operator is busy with another call. Please stand by, they will be with you in a minute." We know that the grammatically correct "she" has been replaced by the politically correct "their" to allow for the presence of some male operators. I have posted several things along these lines. Message 3018338 Message 3080127 Thanks for your comments, which I value. Jack

To: Wizzer who wrote (951)	3/30/1998 1:15:00 PM
From: Sowbug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Wisam Raad: You are bringing excess baggage with you to our thread. I reviewed recent posts here, and nowhere do we claim an inability to understand others because of poor grammar, spelling, or typos. Rather, I believe the premise of the thread is that one's personal language reflects more about that person than just the thoughts contained in the utterance in question. For example, sending a stinging post reading "Your totally wrong, Sowbug" says almost as much about the author as it does about what the author thinks of me. Yes, you're right, it's rude and distracting for Internet participants to allow discussions to degenerate into spelling wars, but what happens here is the antithesis of that. We debate grammar questions here; that's the subject of this thread, nothing more. I haven't seen any regulars here go out to the rest of SI and act as self-appointed Grammar Police. In fact, an implied purpose of this thread is to avoid that sort of thing by confining grammar issues to this area. I challenge you to find any overlap between regulars on the SI Grammar thread and the "internet language police" that irk you. I especially challenge you to find any disrespectful or abusive posts here or evidence that our motives are "to insult, or . . . improve their opinion of themselves." If we have an agenda, it isn't to force others to accept our idea of standard English; rather, it's self-improvement, which really isn't anyone else's business but our own.

To: Wizzer who wrote (951)	3/31/1998 1:56:00 PM
From: Achilles	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Wisam, I just wanted to add one point to what the others have responded. Often in SI and other sites, our goal is not merely to communicate our opinions, but also to convince people of our point of view. Arguments that are ungrammatical or poorly expressed are often less convincing. So everyone should try to write as clearly, and as accurately, as possible. This is not to say, however, that the language police should be conducting raids, except perhaps on this thread. My impression is that most of those who criticize other people's grammar on the internet usually have an imperfect understanding of English usage. (Those with an extensive knowledge of grammar are so used to seeing mistakes that they let them pass; otherwise they would spend 24 hrs. a day at correction.)