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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (19634)	4/2/1998 1:53:00 PM
From: Tommaso	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Not that my opinion is solicited on this subject, but I thought I would mention that I have a niece who had breast reduction surgery and my feeling was it was as if Einstein's parents had said, "Poor little Albert, he's upset at how smart he is; maybe he should have a lobotomy." I never told this to anyone until now and I guess I should have just kept the thought to myself forever. It's just one of those peculiar things that crosses my mind. But according to the Wall Street Journal article a couple of days ago, it's not fashionable to have secrets any more, so I might as well disburden myself of this one. I guess it's an evil male chauvinist thought. Maybe if I take some of my wife's estrogen it will go away.

To: epicure who wrote (19634)	4/3/1998 12:20:00 AM
From: Lady Lurksalot	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

X and All, I had the occasion to encounter a partially transgendered person in the late 1970s. This person had turned from prostitution to armed robbery to finance the transformation, and the surgical parts were being done in bits and pieces, so to speak, along with taking the necessary hormones, which were expensive. This person was not successful at prostitution, mostly because of being in the half-and-half stages. Besides, street prostitution doesn't pay all that well. Armed robbery seemed more lucrative but that didn't pan out either. First time out, this person was arrested at the scene (a convenience store, what else?) and was tried and convicted and sentenced to eight years in prison. When this person arrived at prison, the unfinished surgery and ongoing hormone therapy became apparent, putting the prison officials in a quandary as to whether the new arrival be placed in the women's or men's section (two separate prison facilities, actually). I don't remember what was decided at the time, and I don't remember whether treatment was continued during incarceration, but I think not. It was the late 1970s, and such was a most unusual situation then. A few years ago, I read about a person of similar circumstances who was suing the State of California over having been placed in a men's prison. This person too had been undergoing transgendering procedures and was more female than male at the time of imprisonment. I do not know the outcome of this case or even whether it went to trial. Holly

To: epicure who wrote (19634)	4/3/1998 6:09:00 PM
From: Grainne	Respond to of 108807

X, I am not really that adept at searching the net. I just found a very good way to to it: askjeeves.com You can ask any question in regular sentence form, and Jeeves searches the search engines for you. Even my daughter uses it for research, for school papers. It is the best one I have found. Now, about your elective breast surgery in prison question. I have read quite a few web pages in the last few minutes, and what I find is that a prisoner in Oregon was denied an abortion even though she would pay for it herself, a guy who got his arm almost shot off was denied reconstructive surgery (he was trying to kill someone when he got shot, though), homosexual prisoners (isn't that slightly redundant?) are just now being given condoms in Britain, women in active labor are actively ignored and give birth on cell floors, sometimes to dead babies, the California prison system will treat very serious mental illness but not the garden varieties, etc. I have also recently seen a documentary about Pelican Bay Prison in California, where inmates are treated very brutally, and one on the California prison guards who shot and killed inmates for sport (the gladiator scandal). Anyway, all of the above seem to indicate that prisoners are getting pretty bad medical care, or none at all. I could not find one instance on the web where transsexual prisoners were allowed to have elective surgery, and most elective surgeries are specifically prohibited in California's prison system. These are the things I read: igc.org igc.org igc.org igc.org igc.org igc.org igc.apc.org igc.apc.org lao.ca.gov