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Microcap & Penny Stocks : NVID International -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Naomi who wrote (2543)	4/4/1998 9:07:00 PM
From: Cindy Powell	Respond to of 3244

nhaynes, You mentioned in an earlier post that one needs to be as formiddable as their competitor, and I can see by the bent of your postings that this mentality is your total stance-- "Competition," and being "formiddable." For a moment, step back from the competition/persecution/formiddable mentality, and consider the pertinent information that should rightfully and rationally be concentrated on in when assessing this scenario. Firstly, Bunte was right there in the center arena of NVID's day to day operations and to excuse him as being rightfully aquitted due to his being naiive is ludicrous. (Nothing to do with competition, nahynes.) I can concede that there may have been some (a very small bit) of stupidity with respect to the "magic potion" and what is required in terms of testing protocols, but are you forgetting that he had access to the phone numbers and connections that "could" and "should" have connected him to information that as a president of a company HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE IN BEING INFORMED AND EDUCATED IN??? For him to say, "duh, I dunno." is total baloney. Again, nothing to do with competition nhaynes. Assuming that competition is trying to pick on and persecute NVID is a shoddy, babyish, and feeble excuse in view of the blatant and gross negligence and/or dishonesty that Arata, Korpal, and Bunte have been a party to. (In my opinion.) Klenovic is a wiley coyote, yes...yes he is. But he has to be laughing at the fact that Bunte is trying to skate away from this can of worms and pretending (in my opinion) not to having an "inkling" as to what was going on. I bet Klenovic has been quite entertained and amused in watching the cowards that are running for cover and leaving him to carry the entire ball and chain and responsibility for this fiasco. Klenovic is in a unique position because he has had a prior conviction so the cold wind doth blow more violently in his direction, and he will be more readily labeled as the "bad guy" control person, while the others involved all skate away unscathed. This is not fair at all. Karen Lacey's testimony was indeed powerful but it seems that the jury was forgetting that Bunte, as president of NVID international, was in an entirely different position than Karen Lacey was as secretary. I can understand how Karen Lacey could have been duped into illegal transactions as a secretary, but Bunte!?! No way,--I dont buy into that in it's entirety. Maybe duped a little, but not entirely, and he is skating away from ALL responsibility by capitolizing on the sympathies of the jury as being a "total" victim when he was probably duped only to a (small) extent. It is not all or nothing, but whoa... don't some people know how to play the game as though it is! I believe that he was cognizant of "most" of what was going on within the confines of the NVID infrastructure. Now I don't have "proof" of this...because how are you going to "prove" what goes on in some one's thoughts and in their minds, and in their private conversations? Common sense is what leads me to this supposition, -- not "proof." As I said before, I firmly believe that common sense expectations should go on trial in the case of this fiasco. You say in the second sentence of your post that you knew this scam was a scam from the beginning, and I quote you: "First, don't believe for one minute that I don't think this was an absolute scam from the beginning and I believe very carefully orchestrated." And yet you fault Derek Allen for saying that this company should be crippled. (huh?!?) I do not understand your flip flopping and trying to legitimate the activities of the merry band as innocent, and saying that there is a product, and that there must be an ulterior motive and threat of competition from a competitor, when by your own admission you stated that you think this was an absolute scam from the beginning. Which "which" is which??? This seems to be more of a Peyton Place/General Hospital Soap Opera curiousity for you more than an attempt to get to the bottom of the pertinent facts and information. I seriously doubt anyone (competition) would feel too threatened by NVID and their supposed "products." Complicating this scenario and reading unncessarily deeply into trivial things, and making mention of gold cross lapels, and who got to meet who in person ect. ect. ect., leads us astray from the facts. Surely you have read the SEC account (that I typed for the thread) of the magic potion, and the admission that the magic potion is in a very early infancy stage of development, and that it may never be fully developed into a viable product. --And surely you are now aware that smelling and seeing and touching a "product" and seeing a lovely and well done booth, is not proof positive of a viable product. And finally, nhaynes, you surely are aware of how fickle and unfortunate the game of "proof" is. Many innocent people are in prison because of the lack of "proof." And many people who should be in prison run free because of the lack of "proof." As Norma said, --it is all a game. Pleasant evening all, Cindy

To: Naomi who wrote (2543)	4/5/1998 1:12:00 AM
From: Naomi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3244

Dear Ken, Sorry Ken, have a correction. I posted this then went out for the evening and did not get to read the post before I left. Second paragraph, last sentence should have read, "Bunte acquitted and, my personal opinion, deserved to be found quilty too". I have previously stated my opinion that I felt he should have been judged guilty. I think the few that have been posting on this thread KNOW that. Apologies to you also....... My regards, nhaynes

To: Naomi who wrote (2543)	4/5/1998 11:05:00 AM
From: Kenneth R. Moss	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3244

Ms. nhaynes, Let's discuss some of the things you posted: You wrote:I do believe that Bunte did not have the slightest idea of how to run a company, but Klenovic gave him a title. Klenovic certainly admitted in Court he was the "control person" and knew every detail of how it was done because he was the mastermind of the scam. Bunte acquitted and my personal opinion deserved to be too. I am glad you corrected the last sentence. There is no way the Bunte DID NOT know what was going on. He certainly knows right from wrong and he knew that this was all wrong. He is just as guilty as Klenovic. You wrote: Derak Allen keeps posting that NVID did not and does not have a product. I know that not to be true. NVID had their product there at the meeting even though they told us that the manufacturing subsidiary had been sold. They had their booth like they used at trade shows installed at the meeting. I asked if this was the competitors product or the one they manufactured. I was told theirs. Their booth was very well done. They do not manufacture their product now cause it was sold, but they do have access to it and can in their agreement go back to manufacturing their own if they so choose. but they surely had it back then. I was told by the FBI, U.S.Postal Service, and the Florida Comptrollers Office that there is NO product. I met these people and they are a fine group of people. Now who would you believe????? This is a quote that Cindy put on the thread. She says it better that I can do. She wrote: What is amazing to me is that Bunte, being trained as an accountant-- and presumably having some familiarity with numbers and statistics-- wasn't the least bit reluctant to issue ridiculous press releases such as the one in which a (singular) goat, and a (singular) horse, was supposedly cured by the magic potion. That is truly a testimony to being naiive I suppose, and maybe also a testimony to his innocence. As an accountant, I would think that he should have had some general education dealing with statistical significance and basic science. But, it sounds like the NVID fiasco was a puppet show and that passing the buck and diffusing responsibility is just part of the merry band's basic repetoire. With this type of training, can anyone honestly say that Bunte was such a stupid idiot that he did not know what was going on?? You wrote: I do not agree that this company would still be flourishing if Derek Allen had not posted on Dec. 8th. He had already gone to the SEC and they would have done exactly what they have done. Just not fast enought for him and he posted and accused people he had no proof whatsoever at that time. Ken, do you really believe that is OK Yes I do believe it is ok. If I had had all this info that Derek had, I would have done the same thing. If Derek had posted sooner maybe he could have saved some people hard earned money that they invested in this scam. The info he uncovered proved this was a scam. You wrote: Where do you think the information came from that was posted by Derek and then pulled by SI. I printed out that post and have it. I simply do not understand this statement. Would you please inform us as to the post you are referring? You wrote: I think citizen's arrest has its place, but maybe not in the stock market. I don't know if that has ever been done before because I am a novice at the small cap stocks and I would never have thought about citizen's arrest in that area. It may certainly have happened but I have no idea if that is correct. I would tend to think more in the terms of like a "whistleblower". See that in business frequently. Needless to say, Derek's post did stop the scam and those of us that are investors do appreciate that facet of all this. It did give us the opportunity to wait and see what happens with only being a loser on paper at this time. Ok, I will accept your term " whistleblower". As far as I am concerned , it amounts to the same thing. Derek basically "blew" his whistle and made a "citizens arrest" and stopped this scam. I have been told by several people who know that this is NOT OVER yet. It should not be over until all the "facts" ( as Mr. Federspill calls them) come out. They will come out !!!!!!! I do hope I will get to meet Mr. Allen at some time. It looks like I may be going back to Tampa. I like to see scam artists get sentenced. If I do meet Mr. Allen, then I will thank him again in person as I want to do. I am just not obsessed with knowing what he looks like or what he wears on his left lapel. His work speaks in very loud and clear tones as to his character. This is getting ridiculous ! ! I would suggest we all take a breather and just wait and see the outcome. When we find out all the truth , then either I will apologize to you or I will expect an apology from you. Regards, Ken Moss