Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Did Slick Boink Monica? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Zoltan! who wrote (13671)	4/16/1998 4:18:00 PM
From: Janice Shell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20981

FDR would not have needed to do so had he not demagogued about it during the 1940 election... "Demagogue" is not a verb. It is a noun. It is generally accepted by historians now that Roosevelt did know about the impending attack and actually provoked it by denying the Japanese access to vital raw materials. Ah so. FDR should, you think, have sold the Japanese these vital raw materials, as Clinton is alleged to have sold technology to the Chinese? Well, of course Clinton didn't actually do the selling... A further point here. What my own reading suggests is that most historians today believe that, as SFE said, Roosevelt and his counsellors were aware that a Pacific attack was being planned, but didn't know where or when. Unfortunately, our old friend J. Edgar Hoover had a good deal of information, but failed to pass it on because he was pissed off at the Brits and at Wild Bill Donovan for not taking him seriously enough. And I do agree with Jeff: extremism and fanaticism are always bad things, because they encourage irrationality and blind obedience to a "cause".

To: Zoltan! who wrote (13671)	4/16/1998 5:11:00 PM
From: BlueCrab	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20981

<<actually provoked it by denying the Japanese access to vital raw materials.>> They had been "provoking" it then since 1937, when the US warned the Japanese about the "incursion" into China. The American people were incensed over the Japanese bombing and subsequent massacres at Nanking. <<Many people in government at that time knew about the attack beforehand>> Many? Not hardly. Advisers, Sec'y of State, War, a few highly-placed military (Admiral King was informed to expect some "military activity"), but no one knew about the targets. With US war preparedness, it isn't likely that we could have done much about anything, anyway. Fact is, the Navy believed that their forces were left in grave condition, when they were actually extremely lucky - the Japanese missed the submarine pens, the fuel storage and, above all, the aircraft carriers, which were on scheduled maneuvers. At the time, neither the Japanese nor the US appreciated the importance of the carrier in strategic terms. <<before the whole world he even turned away the refugee Jews on the S.S. St. Louis>> I don't think that Roosevelt had the authority to allow them entry. <<You are quite wrong about the Navy>> No, I'm not. <<many cite the evidence that most of the fleet was sent out of Pearl Harbor shortly before the attack.>> Who cites this? The meat of the fleet (or so it was believed) was at anchor; as I said neither side understood the importance of the carrier (and to greater extent the submarine) in the coming war; had they known, the Japanese would have bombed the submarine pens first (they PURPOSELY went after the BBs first). RE Goldwater: <<It didn't matter, because the media had already destroyed him when he made that "extremism" quote from Cicero.>> Told ya it was lousy politics<vbg>